Scottish independence

[midden]

Stop hijacking dig deep thread

[bigbluebear]

Stop hijacking our oil :eek

[fazersharp]

Fine- pay us back for RBS and see if you can live off the oli

Scotland get a vote as to whether or not to leave.
Why cant we have a vote as to whether or not we want them to stay.
You go then Scotland and perhaps then we can stop pissing around with our clocks and get some extra light in the evening winter instead of changing them for you. (yep that all ive got !!)

[VNA]

Fine- pay us back for RBS and see if you can live off the oli

RBS is a London registered bank.

You go then Scotland and perhaps then we can stop pissing around with our clocks and get some extra light in the evening winter instead of changing them for you.

I think if you held a referendum in putting the clocks back come autumn in Scotland it would be a resounding NO.  So yeah I'd like that extra evening light too!

[nick crisp]

I'm sure the Scots will be very happy under Mr. Salmond and friends (yeah, right  :rolleyes ). You really think your own MPs will be any better than those at Westminster?

So you want to negotiate new terms as an independant nation with Europe? Except that Europe doesn't sound very enthusiastic about it.

Why does Mr. Salmond think that everyone will give an independant Scotland everything on a plate? He seems to be working from assumptions that Scotland will get everything they want, their way. But everything will need negotiating, and never mind oil (a fast depleting resource anyway - that which is left will cost more and more to extract; Britain as it stands is deperate to find energy solutions to the future, not relying on North Sea oil reserves, hence the current, somewhat heated debate over fracking, and Europe's generally increasing reliance on Russian oil and gas).

My gut feeling is that both England AND Scotland will be worse off if split. But, like everyone else, I have no concrete evidence to base this on.

I also wonder if they'll really vote for independance. The independance lobby is very vocal, but is there a silent majority who have no such wish, when push comes to shove?

All food for thought...

[esetest]

I hope Scotland remains part of the UK , but that's for the Scots to decide , but the worrying thing is the Scots could be pushed into voting yes due to the bullying ,  lecturing tactics of the no campaign .
I also would like a referendum on Europe , let the people decide .

[Andy FZS]

Most scots I've spoken to seem to think an independent Scotland would be suicidal. And it's just chest beating bravado from the politicians.

[midden]

Do you have to be Scottish and registered as living in Scotland to vote?

[pilgo]

love the irony-lets get independance from the UK and then end up being a bitch to the foccing EU  :rollin

[noggythenog]

Forget the oil


It's buckfast tonic wine that gives Scotland strength!!! :b

[VNA]

I'm sure the Scots will be very happy under Mr. Salmond and friends (yeah, right  [img alt=:rolleyes]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif[/img] ). You really think your own MPs will be any better than those at Westminster?

It's not an election, it's a referendum as to whether the people of Scotland want to continue as part of the UK or not.  It's not about Alex Salmond.

Your second point - YES!  Doh.  We will at least get the government that we vote for, rather than the current situation where-by another country decides what government we will have.  There ain't no Tories in Scotland you know.

So you want to negotiate new terms as an independant nation with Europe? Except that Europe doesn't sound very enthusiastic about it.

The popular media, who love nothing better than bashing the SNP (whilst seemingly ignoring that the SNP have already achieved the impossible) keep quoting the EU Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso "extremely difficult, if not impossible" (for Scotland to join the EU) despite the fact that he has little real credibility on this issue.  He's really talking about Catalonia and the Basque region.  Time and time again this man's lack of credibility on the issue is pointed out to the mainstream media yet they continue to quote the man and to his obvious delight.  Ask other senior officials in the EU the same question and you will not get the same response.

Why does Mr. Salmond think that everyone will give an independant Scotland everything on a plate?

I don't think that he, or anybody else up here thinks that will be the case.  Yes obviously there will be negotiation.  And yes, as Mark Carney of The Bank of England pointed out there would have to be some sovereign consessions from Scotland in order for their to be a currency union, which he made clear would indeed be potentially workable.

and never mind oil

Yes that oil that Scotland was told would run out by the year 2000.  The oil that was squandered on social security payments so that Thatcher could destroy the miners and the Unions of the working classes.  The secret documents released a couple of years ago confirm that Scotland was lied to.  Other documents talked of talking Scotland's oil being taken by force should she leave the UK, whilst yet more documents make it clear that the reason that Scotland was conned out of devolution in 1979, despite Scotland voting YES in that referendum, well it was oil.

Anyway there's at least 40 years worth of production left out there.  Scotland today is sitting on more oil than Kuwait.

My gut feeling is that both England AND Scotland will be worse off if split. But, like everyone else, I have no concrete evidence to base this on.

The UK is going down the pan, being sold off by the toffs that run the country.  The NHS in England is being privatised.  Our utilities, essential and social services are now mostly owned by private foreign companies and even more bizarrely foreign state owned companies.  Any profits are sucked out of the UK.  And gradually only the middle classes and the poor will pay tax.  It's focced.

Independence for Scotland, if Scotland makes a go of it as I believe we will, has gotta be good for England too.  Perhaps finally doon sooth folks might start to realise that they too have been robbed and conned.

I also wonder if they'll really vote for independance. The independance lobby is very vocal, but is there a silent majority who have no such wish, when push comes to shove?

A silent majority.  That silent majority that has almost the full might of the whole UK popular media behind it.  The roar screaming NO! is deafening.

But Scotland has already achieved the impossible.  Devolution was supposed to stitch the Scots up once and for all.  The Scottish Parliament was designed such that no one party could ever hold a majority.  What that really meant is that the SNP could never hold a majority and as such there would never ever again be the threat of a referendum on Independence in Scotland. 

In 2011 the SNP achieved a majority in the Scottish parliament and called for a referendum on Scottish independence.  The polls had predicted a Labour victory.

Will it happen?  I don't know.  Do people like change - no.  But do people like not getting what they vote for - no.  But I do know the impossible is now possible.

[mickvp]

Most scots I've spoken to seem to think an independent Scotland would be suicidal. And it's just chest beating bravado from the politicians.

im one of those! I think its just Alex "Jabba" Salmond trying to get his name in the history books, and dont think either side will gain anything from it. Rightly or wrongly, we have worked fine as one kingdom for centuries, and I dont see what good breaking that will do really.

[VNA]

Do you have to be Scottish and registered as living in Scotland to vote?

If you are a British citizen living in Scotland and on the electoral role in Scotland you will get a vote.

I know a lot of English people up here who are voting YES.

[VNA]

we have worked fine as one kingdom for centuries

Seventeen years of Tory rule that we didn't vote for, and yet again we have a government in Westminster that we did not vote for.

At the moment mickVP we have a Tory lite government.  The Lid Dems will get wiped out at the next general election and with Labour not sure what they are or what they stand for any more, the Tories will make mince meat of em in the run up to the next election.  Then you'll see what the bastard Tories are really all about.

Vote NO if you want a Tory government ruling over our country in 2015.  Vote NO if you wanna be focced.  We will be roundly punished for daring to hold this referendum. 

[midden]

Yeah so the scottish living in London don't get a say then, unless of course they fraudulently still live with mummy


You do bring up good points, NHS, Utilities etc but it shows a weakness to split when the going gets tough,  very French (like the utility companies)


Not sure how scotland making a go of it can be good for the Uk (won't say England  as Wales and N Ireland aren't to be forgot)

[fazersharp]

That there Salmond just wants to be the King of Scotland.

Would we still keep the blue bit in our flag-------------- I like it with the blue bit

[VNA]

Yeah so the scottish living in London don't get a say then

If they live in London and are on the electoral roll in London then they will not get a say in this referendum.

That there Salmond just wants to be the King of Scotland.

My money is on Wee Eck giving this his all, everything he's got, and if there is a YES vote him announcing his retirement from politics after the completion of the Indy negotiations, that should be 2016.

If it's a NO vote, I think he faces steering the SNP through another term before retiring. 

I don't think he's a man who wants to be in front line politics forever.

[midden]

That there Salmond just wants to be the King of Scotland.

Would we still keep the blue bit in our flag-------------- I like it with the blue bit

Bet Fish face has a Mel Gibson poster above his bed  [size=78%] [/size]

[mickvp]

we have worked fine as one kingdom for centuries

Seventeen years of Tory rule that we didn't vote for, and yet again we have a government in Westminster that we did not vote for.

At the moment mickVP we have a Tory lite government.  The Lid Dems will get wiped out at the next general election and with Labour not sure what they are or what they stand for any more, the Tories will make mince meat of em in the run up to the next election.  Then you'll see what the bastard Tories are really all about.

Vote NO if you want a Tory government ruling over our country in 2015.  Vote NO if you wanna be focced.  We will be roundly punished for daring to hold this referendum.

your beginning to sound like a politician yourself a bit there :lol

There are just too many unknowns for me to even take a chance on it, a lot of unanswered questions I dont know the answer to that for me, means I would never gamble by taking a yes vote. Ive not seen one clear paper released that is just facts and figures without it wandering into the normal political propoganda rubbish. answer to questions like:

what happens to the oil? does Scotland get it, or does it fall into the "UK's" hands?

what about currency, do we definately need our own currency if we become independant (I think I did read that was a yes though)? if so, will we be getting a comparable exchange rate, will our money in the bank be automatically exchanged? what about inflation? wont this massively disrupt the Scottish economy and affect import/export prices?

What about Trident? will it be staying in Scotland?

What about military bases/tanks/submarines/ships/resources? will these be becoming Scottish, or still belong to "uk"?

What about troops? where will the Scottish defense troops come from? will they be "bought out" of their contracts for the British army and drafted in? at what cost?

What about renewable energy? there are a lot of substantial renewable wind and wave energy projects ongoing at the moment (with UK government funding), will these still be ongoing? who will take ownership? Scotland, or UK (they have stumped up a load of the money for these too mind)?

Thats just off the top of my head, and I genuinely dont know the answers to any. I dont want to hear Jabba's opinion on what will be happening, I want solid facts, of which I have seen little.

There just seems to be a load of issues which havent even begun to be sorted out, and the vote is fast approaching?

[bri h]

As much as iI would love a change in the way we're governed I cant see any winners if  Scotland goes its own way.it would be a very interesting social experiment though.