She won't start... can anyone help!!!!!!

[fazer390]

Hi JoeRock,

Thank you for your input, a very interesting read. I'll have a good look at the electrices this weekend.

Last weekend I did change the spark plugs (old ones did look quite ropey!) and Fuel Filter (which had never been changed!) and also squirted some carb cleaner through the carbs (via the airbox). I went for a blast and initially it did cut out again at high speed on a quiet local straight road. But then after a second run it was absalutely fine. I'm wondering if it was a bit of crap in the carbs? If it's dry'ish over the weekend I'll go out on it again after carrying out your suggestions and let you know my results...

[unfazed]

Cutting out at speed is usually electrical.
It still looks like corrosion on the electrics some where.
Joe is correct with regards the alarm and it is a good idea to disconnect it first to rule it out. I have had to rewire many alarms because they were wired incorrectly even by so called professionals. :wall
The alarms are to be wired to cut the ignition circuit, the starter circuit and wired to a switched live which tells the alarm not to activate with the ignition on which is called the sense wire.

[Davebo]

Sorry to hijack, but ...after my Thou had been sitting for a while it coughed and spluttered into life but it ran OK. Only thing was if i cracked the throttle open it would stutter. Steady opening and it was fine. This was in the garage not under load.

Don't remember it doing that before. Any worries ?

Thanks.
DBo.

[unfazed]

Drain the carbs first and see if that cures it

[Falcon 269]

If it doesn't, check the airbox and air filter next.

[PaulSmith]

Drain the carbs first and see if that cures it

I have heard this suggested a few times, what is the easiest way to do this? I have never worked on carbs before. 

[unfazed]

Look here I posted a picture to help some time ago http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,6574....l#msg61788.
Take care not to over tighten the drain screws when finished

[fazer390]

I visited my inlaws over the weekend and my father inlaw gave me some fuel system and carb cleaner stuff.

I put it my tank with some fresh fuel and went out for a run...

Initially I wasn't fully convinced as I was starting to accept it was probably the alarm as suggested; HOWEVER...

I gave her a good test around the Wiltshire countryside and... no cutting out, struggling or stuttering under load. She now pulls strong and confident... Woo hoo...

I'll take her out again this Thursday for another test to make sure. I'm day off that day as I'll be attending Drillers funeral...

[unfazed]

I drain the carbs, fuel filter and tank on a yearly basis as the bike is used all year in all weathers, but also drain the carbs if bike is slower than normal to start. Let the tank run as low as possible first, makes the job much easier and less wastefull.
Any bike I get to work on with starting issues I always drain the carbs first thing in the morning and many times it resolves starting issues. Then drain the fules and filters if the carb draining works.
The water congreates in bottom of the float bowl overnight and is the first to be picked up the the pilots jets when you go to start in the morning and since water does not ignite  :'(  it slows the starting process and or runs rough after starting.

[fazer390]

Hi guys, I'm back again!

I went to the london bike show Sunday on the Fazer and I've still got the original symptoms! :wall

• Initially it struggled to start in the morning; turning over but not catching for about 30 sec.
  
• I rode to the garage to fill up and the same thing happened.
  
• Then 2hrs of mainly motorway riding without a hitch.
  
• Spent several hours at show, then got back to bike, as before bike struggled before engine catched.
  
• 10min into ride home and after some short fast blasts off roundabouts etc... engine cuts out.
  
• I pull over and attempt to start. A big back fire, then several cranks it starts again.
  
• All fine for next hour on M4, then I overtake a bus, lane 3, high speed; engine cuts out!!!
  
• I coast towards hard sholder where I attempt to start while still rolling and it does...
  
• 20min later I'm home.
  

Prior to this run I took on all your advice; drained carbs, checked airbox & filter, new fuel filter, oil & filter, new plugs, trimmed HT leads, checked elect connections under the tank & seat, checked kill switch, cleaned sidestand switch and a new battery was replaced the other month etc...

When the engine starts and cuts out, it's like switching a light bulb on or off. No warnings at all?
The Fazer has always been kept in my garage for the last eight years of ownership; however I do wash it after every ride and it's done 50k miles now. I'm thinking it can only be the Datatool system 3, ECU or rectifier, so another weekend of fettling and head scratching for me...  :\

If I can't fix it I'll have to admit defeat and book it into a dealer!  :'( £££??? Any dealer recommendations or are there any of you experts out there I can bring it to?

[Andy FZS]

Others may disagree but in my opinion if it just cuts out and back fires when trying to start it's spark not fuel related. The back fire is the fuel igniting so fuel must be there, also fuel related I would expect the bike to lose power and baulk with throttle but possibly tick over (badly perhaps) you in theory have four fuel systems except for the pump I supose, but what are the chances of all four failing simultaneously? Anyway I'd be looking at ignition not fuel, good luck.
Andy

[PaulSmith]

I agree with Andy. Sudden cut out means its not fuel or air as both would give warnings. I don't think its spark (not directly anyway) because you would expect one cylinder to be affected if it was a plug or lead, and two if it was a coil. That leaves electrical. The symptoms are similar to what I would expect from the kill switch, so try using the kill switch deliberatly to compare the effects (obviously on a safe bit of road with no one behind you!). If you use the kill switch on a regular basis, it could be worn out, causing these problems. Strip it down and look for wear, should be easy enough to repair/replace. If you don't use it often, it could be just dirty contacts.

Finally, it could be your alarm. This is easy to bypass but expensive to replace. 

[unfazed]

I agree with Paul and Andy, it is most likely electrical, however the fact it turns over rules out the kill switch, side stand switch and clutch switch. Any fault with these would prevent the starter cut relays operating and the starter solenoid would not operate and it would not turn over.
This leaves the Plug Caps, Coils, Pickup, ECU or Alarm.

I have sent you a PM on how to bypass the Datatool System 3 Alarm you have just to rule it out of the equation. It is definitely a Datatool System 3 you have???
With Ignition off
Check the pick up first as it is the easiest to check. There is only one pick up coil and should have a resistance between 250 and 370 ohms.
Check the connector block (both sides of it) for corrosion scrape any off and give it a good spray of WD40 to keep corrosion at bay.
Next easy one to check is the coil connectors. Under the tank pull off the red/black lead on the coils which supply the 12v power from the Ignition fuse via the kill switch to coils. Check for corrosion scrape off any, spray with WD40 and reconnect. Do the same with the Orange and Grey connectors.
Now the pain in the arse bit, unscrew the plug caps and cut a 1/2 inch off the end of the leads and spray with WD40 and screw them back together. (Mentioned in a previous post in this thread).
If it still does not start after this let us know.

[fireblake]

I know nothing, except that every bike i've had has had issues with alarms. Sooner or later.
I hate them with an undisguised vengeance

Mickey

P.S. But i hate the toe rags that force you to have alarms more.

[unfazed]

I know nothing, except that every bike i've had has had issues with alarms. Sooner or later.
I hate them with an undisguised vengeance

Mickey

P.S. But i hate the toe rags that force you to have alarms more.

I can appreciate the sentiment  :eek

Having fitted and fixed a number of different alarms over the years , I would say that 90% of alarm problems are down to being fitted/wired incorrectly.
I have had to rewire and remove many due to this and many were supposed to have been fitted by "trained fitters".  :'(

[fazer390]

Cheers for the alarm bypass info Pat,

It worked a bloody treat... After all the fault diagnosis, trial & error, modifying and replacing parts; it was the Datatool S3 all along!

I just need to decide whether to remove it, replace it or modify it to keep the alarm and remove the Immobiliser function...

I owe you a pint mate... 

[unfazed]

Or two