Confessions of a Newbie Rider

[Buzz]

-- For smoother gear changes make sure the pedal is at a low enough angle to make it easier for your toes to give it a good positive upwards "click".  When I first got the bike I found that I kept missing up-changes and hitting neutral.  I lowered the lever a cm and never had the problem again. 


-- For cornering it really helps if you keep your knees tight on the tank, your upper body loose and toes on the pegs...for right handers, push with your left foot on the peg and right hand on the bars and vice versa, in other words countersteering.


Have a read of the "Full Control" PDF I've just stuck in the Downloads section, it's very good.

[theglove1978]

-- For smoother gear changes make sure the pedal is at a low enough angle to make it easier for your toes to give it a good positive upwards "click".  When I first got the bike I found that I kept missing up-changes and hitting neutral.  I lowered the lever a cm and never had the problem again. 


-- For cornering it really helps if you keep your knees tight on the tank, your upper body loose and toes on the pegs...for right handers, push with your left foot on the peg and right hand on the bars and vice versa, in other words countersteering.


Have a read of the "Full Control" PDF I've just stuck in the Downloads section, it's very good.

Awesome - cheers dude!  Have hit neutral once or twice only to be met with a screaming engine and no oomph 

[JoeRock]

#1 It helps if you change early from 1st to 2nd, ie. no higher than 4k rpm
#2 What's the problem? I change from 6th to 1st without releasing the clutch in between.

God don't do that! It's incredibly bad for a sequential gearbox to have that done to it, you need to make sure every gear you have has been selected and meshed properly on the way up and down the box to avoid anything being stripped!

[JZS 600]

Interesting,,, I usually block change down from 6 to 4th as there's not a lot of difference between 5th and 6th when slowing down and occasionally block change down 3 gears during a big slow down

(not certain but I think I hit the rev limiter on an over take yesterday going from 1st to second,,, :evil )

[Dead Eye]

You don't have to fully engage the clutch on every single shift - just let it bite a little so that the gears mesh correctly on that change, I can still drop from 6th - 1st pretty speedily if I have to

[Grahamm]

[quote author=elbrownos link=topic=9670.msg98258#msg98258 date=1378057526]
I change from 6th to 1st without releasing the clutch in between.

God don't do that! It's incredibly bad for a sequential gearbox to have that done to it, you need to make sure every gear you have has been selected and meshed properly on the way up and down the box to avoid anything being stripped!
[/quote]

I don't see why block shifting is bad.

As you approach a hazard you use the brakes to slow yourself (based on the Limit Point or proximity), then pull in the clutch, drop down however many gears you need as appropriate to the situation and speed, add a touch of throttle to make sure the "input" gear speed and "output" gear speeds are about the same, then feed in the clutch and it's all nice and smooth.

Sure, if you manage to totally mis-match the gear speeds, you may end up with the rear wheel locking up or a nasty noise (although on my FZ6, if I try to go from second to first at too high a speed it will just refuse to engage), but that just means you need to practice getting the speeds equal a bit more.

Block shifting is also recommended by the IAM as part of "sympathy for the machine" ie it saves repeated use of the clutch when it's not required.

[Dead Eye]

I think the issue stems from if the gears do not mesh correctly - in this instance you find yourself without power / drive when you potentially need it and it will do damage to the gears. Block changing increases the risk of this happening in sequential gearboxes

[Grahamm]

I think the issue stems from if the gears do not mesh correctly - in this instance you find yourself without power / drive when you potentially need it

Yes, but if you're heading into a situation like that, you wouldn't (or shouldn't) block change.

That's what observation and riding plans are for, ie you look at the conditions ahead and consider whether you can simply slow on the brakes then drop right down the gears or, alternatively (in a situation where you may need drive immediately), step down the gears individually, engaging the clutch after each one.

[Davebo]

Hi Glove,
Was in a similar situation a couple of months ago. I even managed to crash at low speed on some mud. :-(

RoadcraftNottingham (Youtube) has some cracking videos and the gear changing one helped with my clunky changes. I now just nudge the clutch a bit.

Counter-steering - impressive difference for a small change in riding, but as people say go careful. Start with just riding straight on a quiet road and push one side of the handlebars. The bike goes the opposite way to your intuition.

Speed - no bad thing as long as you're not holding up traffic.

I went back to my Mod1 & 2 training people (A2B in Harrogate) and did a post test lesson going through cornering, observation, over-taking and just generally building road craft. Best 4 hours I've spent and arguably learnt more than on the Mod 1 & 2. Speed will come from better riding ability.

Cheers, DBo.

[simonm]

Just being picky but mod1 and mod2 are tests rather than lessons.  They are for you to demonstrate you are a competent rider as a result of your DAS/motorcycle lessons.

I passed my test feeling good only to realise I've only just started learning.  Some stuff is intuitive, such as the fact that you always countersteer even if you're not conscious of it.  Conscious contersteering does give you more control as long as you don't think about the physics midcorner.

A rider friend of mine said "push right to go right" and that's saved me a few times when I've started to panic or get target fixation.

[simonm]

My tips are these:

1.) Clutchless changing up the box is good and a great feeling, just make sure your gear pedal is correctly adjusted or you'll never get it.

2.) Block changing is fine provided you do it properly and match the rpms to the gear otherwise you'll lock up the rear wheel.  Tbh I only block change a couple of gears at a time unless I have to stop for traffic lights and I don't have time to change down 1 at a time.

3.) Push right to go right.  Self explanatory

4.) Don't take forums too seriously (as if I would).  Everyone has a different opinion, make your own.  Having said that there is a very large consensus that changing down without using the clutch is a very bad thing.

5.) Have fun and go at YOUR pace, not other people.  If they don't wait for you then find new people to ride with.

6.) See 5, can't stress this enough.

7.) Don't rely on other people's brake lights and road positioning to line up for a corner.  You may not be happy to lean as much as they do and they may be using the gears and doing engine braking.

[Aegis Bearing Mel]

Some decent advice floating around in amongst these here posts.

Best advice I was given was "You need to put the miles in on your machine to get comfortable with it, but ALWAYS ride your own ride, don't be forced into risks by others." © Razgruff

One of the best hours I think you can spend with your bike is with a couple of spanners and the bike up on the centre stand.
Mark the position of them and THE addjust the bars, pegs, levers to see how moving each a few mil changes the feel of them for you.
Put them back where they were and go for a coffee.
Come back to the bike, have a play with them again and figure out which changes, if any, make the bike feel comfier for you.
Take her for a wee spin, see if you're right.
My clutch lever and brake lever are at completely different angles to one another, just seems to the be the way my dumb ass body prefers it.
I use a lot of back brake when filtering, so my rear lever is adjusted to be closer to the peg for ease of use.
My gear lever is adjusted in a similar way for me stoopid hoof too.

[nick crisp]

In a group ride, do not fixate on the bike in front of you. Watch where the road is going and look out for potential hazards as normal. You will see plenty of the leading bike in your peripheral vision to know where he's going, how close you are etc. That's one of the best tips I've been learning more about lately on all the rides I've been doing.

[Lawrence]

In a group ride, do not fixate on the bike in front of you. Watch where the road is going and look out for potential hazards as normal. You will see plenty of the leading bike in your peripheral vision to know where he's going, how close you are etc. That's one of the best tips I've been learning more about lately on all the rides I've been doing.

This applies when filtering too, don't just follow the bike in front.  Make sure that you're aware of what's going on as things change all the time and by the time you get to where he was, the traffic, gaps etc will have changed.

[Simon.Pieman]

Block shifting is also recommended by the IAM as part of "sympathy for the machine" ie it saves repeated use of the clutch when it's not required.

I think the IAM are talking out of their butt. By all means change down the box using the method of your choice, but there is no need to invent silly 'alternative' reasons for doing it.
No mechanic or engineer (me) would advise someone with a worn clutch to refrain from using the clutch on downchanges in future. Clutches wear out for a number of reasons, (usually abuse) downchanging is not one of them.
I applaud the IAM for educating the great unwashed (as they probably see it) but they don't do themselves any favours sometimes.

To paraphrase, the IAM could save wear on their reputation by not using repeated use of bollocks when it's not required.

[JoeRock]

It's not the locking up the rear wheel that I meant when I said you shoudn't block change, as in an IL4 engine you would have to really cock up and drop a lot of gears on pretty much a closed throttle to lock the wheel up - although of course you could do what my mate did in a bit of a headfit once on a trackday - forgot which shift pattern he had, was pretty close to the rev limiter, and accidentaly dropped a gear instead of going up a gear! Did not end up so well for him haha.

The reason though is that as DeadEye said in a sequential gearbox you need to make sure the gears all mesh on the way up and down the box - the only way you can do that is to let the clutch out a bit (not neccessarily all the way, just enough for you to know that the gear has engaged) before you then drop another gear.  By all means block shift if you don't fancy replacing your clutch plates a bit sooner, but be warned that a set of clutch plates is both a hell of a lot quicker and easier to replace in a bike than stripped gears!

[Grahamm]

No mechanic or engineer (me) would advise someone with a worn clutch to refrain from using the clutch on downchanges in future.

Where did that say anything about a worn clutch?

The IAM's advice is simply to avoid unnecessary mechanical inputs (not just on the clutch springs and plates, but also on the cable etc) just as they advise not using your indicators when there's nobody to indicate to.

It's all to do with *thinking* about what you're doing on the machine instead of doing things automatically, for instance, similarly, they often say when manoeuvring "consider a lifesaver" instead of always doing one just because "that's what you're told to do".

[Lawrence]

The reason though is that as DeadEye said in a sequential gearbox you need to make sure the gears all mesh on the way up and down the box - the only way you can do that is to let the clutch out a bit (not neccessarily all the way, just enough for you to know that the gear has engaged) before you then drop another gear.  By all means block shift if you don't fancy replacing your clutch plates a bit sooner, but be warned that a set of clutch plates is both a hell of a lot quicker and easier to replace in a bike than stripped gears!

As long as you're moving you shouldn't have any problems dropping loads of gears (even 6th->1st) in one go.  It's when you're stationary that it quite often won't go in, even after just one shift.

I quite often drop 3 gears in one go (usually 6th->3rd) and have not once had a problem with it not engaging.  I virtually always get it while stationary though, although I try to stop in 1st/neutral. 

[Simon.Pieman]

The IAM's advice is simply to avoid unnecessary mechanical inputs (not just on the clutch springs and plates, but also on the cable etc) just as they advise not using your indicators when there's nobody to indicate to.

Using the clutch (a mechanical input) on downchanges is not 'unnecessary' if that's how you would prefer to change gear.
Didn't we have a discussion a few days ago were we agreed that thinking less about regular things in order to concentrate on unexpected things is the way to go?

[Bluecray]

I remember going from my 125 to my newly brought CB500 and God the power I could not believe how QUICK it was!!!