manual camchain tensioner fitment guide

[sirgalahad3]

I think he means TDC but his phone has corrected it too tax.....

[Ian-man]

Yes sorry, New phone and I haven't got to grips with it yet, lol.

I have edited my post so yours looks weird now, 

[pilgrim]

Evening.
Captain Cam Chain Tensioner killer here. :evil
Thought I'd just fill in some gaps to help people decide what to do. Bikes a 51 reg registered in Oct 2010. First one went at 25k in August 2010 so nearly 9 years old give or take manufacture date. Could be age related then? Got a replacement head which was apparently quite high mileage ( 80k plus ) That one went on 9th May this year. First time I was doing about 30/35 mph, second time bike was warming up on the drive. Got a replacement engine on Friday, and the fist thing I've done to it is put a manual cam chain tensioner on it. This is mainly because I now have no faith in the standard one, which in my opinion has a design flaw in that if the spring fails, there is no warning or fail safe, and its instant engine death.
I'm not saying that this is going to happen to anyone else ( twice FFS! ) but now I know it wont happen to me again, and I'm happy with that. I've not heard of it happening to any other Gen 1, but I have heard a rumour of it happening on early R1's, but that's not verified.
Still, there you go. I'm a bit older, a bit wiser, 500 quid out of pocket and nearly 3 months bikeless. In that weather we've just had. Talk about salt in the wound

[pilgrim]

http://uk.search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A7x9Qb...3ft=265598

[pilgrim]

Same tensioner, different bike, same result.
http://uk.search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A7x9Qb...%3ft=93725

[Strifae]

This is probably a daft question but does this effect the FZ1?

[snapper]

Pilgrim

Same tensioner, different bike, same result.
http://uk.search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A7x9Qb...%3ft=93725

All I get from this link is

[table]  [tr] [td] Gone[/td][/tr] [tr] [td]
This link is not authorized by Yahoo! If you would like to continue to this link's intended destination at your own risk, click here. [/td][/tr][/table]

[VNA]

snapper, click on the bit that says "here", it's OK.

Pilgrim,  Thanks.  Sorry to hear of your troubles.  Seems lighting can strike twice.  Nae luck!

With thousands of bikes out there, it's seems to only a small number that have been effected (so far).

I just have the niggling feeling that a manual adjuster might produce new problems.

Sitting on the fence for now.  Would make the move if I'm sure it's def a win win.

[nick crisp]

I get where you're coming from VNA, but the only problem I can see anyone having with a manual is if you get lazy and don't adjust it when things start to get a little noisy. No moving parts - nothing to go wrong? And the ones Devilsyam has put us all on to do look to be very good quality. On the other hand, I've had four thous now and never had a problem - worked in bike shops and never seen one come in with a problem either. But then you see/hear about something like pilgrims and , well, maybe it'd be nice to have the peace of mind anyway?

[PieEater]

...the only problem I can see anyone having with a manual is if you get lazy and don't adjust it when things start to get a little noisy.....

Same here, whilst I can see that a gradual increase in engine noise might be hard to detect if you ride regularly, judging from the noise produced with a slightly slack cam chain when fitting the adjuster - it will become pretty obvious that it needs doing before you're in danger of the chain slipping one of it's cogs

[VNA]

Well booked my bike in for a valve check.

I bought the bike from Ride On in Glasgow in 2004, but after the PDI mess and the first and only bike shop service she's had at one year old, well I'd rather avoid their mechanic.  I don't want him to ever touch my bike again.

The mechanic at the place I go for for my MOT's bull shitted me one year (I'd cleaned your brake callipers up and bled the brakes too he told me).  So I had to pop em back off when I got up the road worried he'd cleaned all my red rubber grease off that I put on a couple of days previous.  But the most he done is bleed the already well bled brakes.

Where to find a mechanic you can trust?

I spoke to Jim Allen Motorcycles in Falkirk.  But their work shop is fully booked for weeks ahead (not cheap either), so they put me onto a fella that used to work for em.

Anyway the fella at Jim Allen, said yeah we get a good few tensioner failures.  But when I mentioned bent valves he said - nope not had any em.  Just folks riding in with rattling chains from tensioners that have given up the ghost.  He said the only manual tensioners they had fitted were to race bikes and they wouldn't recommend them for road bikes.

Anyway hope the back street fella I'm booked in for is OK.  He sounded like he knew his stuff on the phone and seemed keen as well.  I've got quite a few hours to kill in Falkirk on Monday.  Says the bike will have to sit and cool for a couple of hours first as he may have to take the radiator out.  I was thinking, tank off, cam cover off, bobs yer uncle?

[nick crisp]

Did he give any reasons why he wouldn't fit them to a road bike? I've tried looking on other forums regarding this subject, but can't find anything conclusive.

[VNA]

He said you tend to get more wear with a manual tensioner, ie chain stretch.

That doesn't matter on a race bike I guess, where you just wanna make sure the tensioner never jumps.

And I guess while now and again I give my thou a good thrashing, I'm probably still giving it nothing like the abuse a race bike will get.

Oh he also said the failures are kind of random, but more young low mileage bikes than older higher mileage ones.

I'll ask the fella that's checking my valves what he thinks.  Fingers crossed at 5000 miles overdue they'll be fine!  Pain in the butt getting them done, where ever I go I'm stuck for the best part of the day till I get my bike back.  Cafes and book shops here we come.  Hope they have a good book shop in Falkirk. 

[VNA]

Anyway I think at the moment I'm doing nothing, just run as.

If it turns out there is a wear issue with the Yamaha spring tensioner I'd consider fitting a new Yamaha tensioner. 

But for sure if I'd have had Pilgrims experience I'd probably never have a bike with a spring tensioner again.

Wondering what the Gen2 has, is it spring or hydraulic? 

[PieEater]

Given that bikes have run for decades with manual cam chain tensioners I kind of find it hard to accept that they are now suddenly only fit for race bikes. I was told by a well meaning mechanic that I didn't need to service my EXUP because it had ceramic bushes, I ignored his advice based on the advice I was given on these forums and I am glad I did.

I chose to fit a manual tensioner because my bike is over 12 years old and parts are starting to fail, to my mind eliminating the chance of the automatic tensioner failing with catastrophic results was worth the £35 investment just for the peace of mind. If you don't want to fit a manual tensioner then don't, chances are you'll be fine.

[VNA]

Yeah I hear what you are saying pieEater.

But I think like devilsyam says we all have to make up our own minds.

I'm only quoting what the guy in the bike shop said.  I'm sure he's correct about the failures they have had, I mean why would he fib, but whether he's right about the manual tensioner I dunno.  And I thought bikes had been running with auto tensioners for decades?  Dunno.  Makes you wonder why they haven't perfected them yet.

At the moment I'm not convinced that the auto tensioner really does pose a big problem (famous last words)

It's not exactly a massive trail of destruction (yet).  Has Pilgrim just been struck by lightening twice?

The other thought I had was, if you do have a tensioner issue, and on top of that you end up with bent valves;

Well how much are the valves, oil seals, shims etc?  I had valve and camshaft issues years and years ago with a car.  The parts didn't cost much and a bit of DIY and all was sorted again.  Oh hydraulic tappets - easy peasy of course (used to get the odd failure with them though).

It's not really catastrophic, unless a valve doesn't want to bend and messes up a piston, maybe that's on the catastrophic side.

Naw, it's the catastrophic price of bike parts that really worries us, isn't it?  Catastrophic impact on the wallet for fixing an engine that only just really a little messed up.  Grrrrrr, bloody parts prices.

[nick crisp]

Honda have been switching back and forth between auto and manual tensioners for years. They've never seemed to be able to get it right with either!

[fazer390]

Mine's a 2002 with 50k on the clock and reading the whole thread; I've decided to buy one...    (better safe than sorry imho...)

[old son]

Mines an 05 with 69k on the clock, do I need one?

[PieEater]

Mines an 05 with 69k on the clock, do I need one?

In all probability no! But I fitted one on the basis that £35 for peace of mind is worthwhile.