Formula One pays just £1million corporation tax on £300million profit

[VNA]

It's a loophole that would be virtually impossible to close.

Perhaps, and I'm no tax expert.  But put it another way, laws could be tightened, many loopholes closed done and others substantially tightened.  This country is missing out on billions upon billions of desperately needed tax revenue, yet nobody seems bothered.

So if one limited company loans money to another, it's just the same as if I was to loan you some money, we are completely separate legal entities and there is no way that anyone could say that we aren't.

Yeah OK, but this is one Bernie company lending another Bernie company.  He's lending himself his own money.  I don't know if this is the case in Bernie's case, but I'd bet some of these companies are simply fronts for pushing money about and serve no other purpose.  And seriously how hard can it really be to stop such a practise.  I think the truth is our government doesn't want to do anything about it, and that may be becuase individuals within our government are benefitting hugely from these arrangements.

I'm not happy with the way tax works either and if there was a legal way of reducing what I pay I would.

In % terms, like many folks here I pay an absolute fortune in tax.  Yup Osborne has shoved my tax up to pay for tax cuts for rich folks.  I really don't mind paying my taxes if truth be told.  Though I object to it being spent on nuclear weapons, illegal wars etc (OK that's another matter), but I accept, and I accept as a socialist, that if you want a civilised democratic caring nation, yup I'm gonna have to pay tax and probably quite a lot.  Not a problem.

Look talking about loopholes.  Amazon does billions of pounds of trade with millions of customers in the UK.  Yet Amazon tells us they don't carry out any transactions in the UK and therefore they don't need to pay any corporation tax. I mean foc me!  I mean double foc me!  Foccing hell!  How the foc does that work!  They say it with a straight face too!  Focs sake. 

Major company after major company are using loose UK and EU tax laws so they they pay next to no, or in many cases zero corporation tax.

You know everybody is bitching about who got more than 20,000 quid in benefits, who got this and who got that.  There's a lack of jobs out there, but people out of work are work shy and so on.  We are probably talking about trying to save 100 million from the most hard up folks in society (and yes a minority do take advantage).

So which are people concerned about, the pennies or the pounds.  The money that makes a massive colossal  difference, or the savings that are as worthwhile as pissing into the wind.

That's all I'm trying to say.

Oh don't worry too much about the 40% tax bracket.  Not long after you start paying that you stop paying national insurance contributions.  (well it drops from 12% to 2%)  The 40% bracket is not as painful as those who pay it like to make out it is.

[rustyrider]

Amazon does billions of pounds of trade with millions of customers in the UK.  Yet Amazon tells us they don't carry out any transactions in the UK and therefore they don't need to pay any corporation tax.

But equally the huge Amazon warehouses scattered all around the country employ thousands of people.  All these people pay their income tax, National Insurance and spend their money so are contributing by paying VAT too.  I suspect that the combined contributions to the economy made by the workers at Amazon total more than Amazon would pay if they declared all their income as UK based.

Oh don't worry too much about the 40% tax bracket.  Not long after you start paying that you stop paying national insurance contributions.  (well it drops from 12% to 2%)  The 40% bracket is not as painful as those who pay it like to make out it is.

Isn't it?  My NI contributions haven't dropped they've actually gone up as I'm paying self employed NI contributions on top of my PAYE NI contributions.

Now, here's a suggestion for you as a good socialist.  My missus is from a communist country where there is no such thing as benefits.  But in actual fact there are.  Anyone unable to work due to illness or injury gets paid by the Government in much the same way as here.  However, anyone who simply isn't working because they claim they can't get a job because there are none, etc, gets nothing, in theory.  In practice everyone is entitled to a job and an income.  So the unemployed get given a job and, in return, get given their benefits.  Why can't we introduce a similar scheme?  Anyone claiming unemployment benefits gets nothing unless they put in at least 20 hours a week sweeping the streets, cleaning graffiti, picking up litter, clearing ponds, etc, the sort of jobs given to people on Community Service Orders.  The money would still come out of the benefits system but would at least be doing the country some good and the fact that the claimants are actually going out and doing something might make them more employable and give them an incentive to go out and get a full time job.

[VNA]

But equally the huge Amazon warehouses scattered all around the country employ thousands of people.  All these people pay their income tax, National Insurance and spend their money so are contributing by paying VAT too.  I suspect that the combined contributions to the economy made by the workers at Amazon total more than Amazon would pay if they declared all their income as UK based.

The income from Amazon UK is UK based.  Yes they do carry out transactions in the UK, and it's estimated they are currently dodging tax of over 100 million a year.

Why if an Amazon employee has to pay tax do the bosses and shareholders get off Scot free.

Also Amazon pay a large % of it's workforce at just above the minimum wage - often I'm told 1p above the minimum wage.  A lot of these full time employees won't be able to make ends meet as the minimum wage is not a living wage.  So many Amazon employees will be claiming benefits. 

So not only are Amazon dodging 100 million in due tax but their tax dodging rich shareholders are being subsidised by 40% tax rate payers like yourself. 

And if they don't like paying their corporation tax, why not tell em take take run and jump?  There are plenty of companies that will be happy to step in and carry on where Amazon left off, and who knows they might not only pay their taxes but even pay their full time staff a living wage.

If I dodge my tax, I get the book thrown at me, it's time to do exactly that with Amazon.  Make em cough up or shut em down.

[rustyrider]

But like I said before, they aren't dodging paying the tax because that is evasion which is illegal, they are avoiding paying tax by being clever.

[VNA]

I've never said it's illegal, I've never said they are breaking the law, nor has any of the articles that I have read about it, or the one I linked to said so either.

They are doing it becuase they can, and becuase they are allowed to.  And in my opinion, as I've said all along, the blame lies with our government.  They have as far as I can see spouted much hot air but taken no real effective action.    The way things are going they may as well scrap corporation tax.

Clever?  Sure, but I'd say cosy, when the very accountants that they use are also government tax consultants!

What I don't get is why you think that the rich should not have to pay any tax on their vast wealth and income, whilst you and I, along with the vast majority of folks here on this forum get taxed to the hilt.

As as I've said I'm happy to pay my tax, but not when Bernie and his chums don't have to.

[Exupnut]

C'MON HAMILTON!!!!!!! Be great to see him in webbers seat.

[rustyrider]

As as I've said I'm happy to pay my tax, but not when Bernie and his chums don't have to.

I'm not happy to pay mine and I respect anyone that finds a way of avoiding paying theirs.  Let's face it, none of us would pay tax if we could avoid it.  I know the money to run the country has to come from somewhere but we all pay VAT on everything we buy, we pay fuel duty, we pay road tax that is supposed to pay for the roads but doesn't, we pay National Insurance that should pay for the NHS but what goes in and what comes out don't add up, we pay council tax to support our local infrastructure but if you add up how much we all pay and then how much your local council has in it's budget, that doesn't add up either.  Not to mention the extortionate additional tax those of us that smoke pay into the Government coffers too.

Lewis doesn't need a Red Bull, he's quite capable of beating them in what he has!

[lew600fazer]

I read an article in my local newspaper a week or so back. It cost the regional government in Valencia Spain £35 million pounds /Euros to run the GP last year of which £€27 million was paid to that little weasel Ecilstone. as usual more gets more.
Lew

[rustyrider]

I read an article in my local newspaper a week or so back. It cost the regional government in Valencia Spain £35 million pounds /Euros to run the GP last year of which £€27 million was paid to that little weasel Ecilstone. as usual more gets more.
Lew

What the hell was the Government doing paying for it?  The normal way it is run is that the circuit pays for the privilege of hosting a GP and get their money back from the paying punters who go to watch.  You can't blame Bernie if the circuit can't do their sums, they agreed the price in the first place and if they need the Government to bail them out then it might go some way to explain why the Spanish economy is in the state it is. 

[Pat]

Isn't the Valencia F1 race run on a street circuit?

[lew600fazer]

Isn't the Valencia F1 race run on a street circuit?

Just copied this from Wikepedia,
Would appear Bernie is a man of honour just like the Politicians he was dealing with, :rollin :rollin  Must admit though I did not know it was a street circuit.
Being a street citcuit I assume would explain the reasoning why the regional government got involved , what the article did fail to mention was what income the event pumped into the local economy, and that you will never find out as the Spanish are masters at  not paying there taxes if they can avoid it.
The deal to host the Valencia race was signed on June 1, 2007, and is for seven years.[sup][10][/sup] The deal was made between Formula One supremo Bernie Ecclestone and the Valmor Sport group, which is led by former motorcycle rider Jorge Martinez Aspar and Villarreal football club's president Fernando Roig. This deal goes back on comments made by Ecclestone previously stating that no European country should hold more than one race each year as Barcelona currently holds the Spanish Grand Prix each year.
Although now confirmed, the deal was rumored to be conditional on the People's Party winning regional elections on 27 May 2007.[sup][11][/sup] However, Ecclestone had clarified his comments on May 16, 2007: "I said I wouldn't formalise a contract until after the elections because I didn't know who I would be signing it with." He said his statements were taken out of context.[sup][12][/sup] Ecclestone has since been cleared of influencing the election by the Valencian Electoral Commission.[sup][13][/sup]
The official track layout was unveiled by Valencia councillor and transport counselor, Mario Flores, on 19 July 2007. The track was first used in the last weekend of July 2008, as the circuit hosted a round of the Spanish F3 Championship and International GT Open. It was first used for the European Grand Prix on August 24, 2008.

[rustyrider]

In that case it should be the Valmor Sport group, not the Spanish Government, that would foot the bill for the race to be run and then take the profit, or the hit for any loss, from it.  I get involved in F1 on odd occasions and I know that Silverstone Circuit has said that they are happy if the F1 GP breaks even and if it does make a loss, then they take the hit.  They don't look upon it as the big money spinner that everyone thinks it is, it is for the knock on effects that hosting the GP provides.

When the Rockingham circuit was being built it was designed to be up to International standards so had the layout and infrastructure to host an F1 race if they wanted but when I asked if they would be competing with Silverstone for the GP they denied they'd ever try.  They run very few events at Rockingham these days and they reckon they can make more money out of track days than anything else.  Minimal staff required, a couple of ambulances to provide medical cover and that is about it. 

[lew600fazer]

Wish I could get involved in F1 and collect £27 million for just giving the nod to run an F! race, and I like others would quite happily pay HMG less than £1 million in tax with a turn over of £300 million, me thinks some folk are jealous of the wee man.  :rollin :rollin

[DryRob]

... the unemployed get given a job and, in return, get given their benefits.  Why can't we introduce a similar scheme? ...

Because this takes jobs/hours off people who already work for the company/council. Some firms were doing it the other year, bussing in cheaper/free "experience" workers while telling their part time staff there weren't any extra hours. It might work in theory but the reality is employers want the cheapest workforce and it would lead to workers in private companies being fully funded by the state. Of course the current "sponsorship" scheme we have isn't much better.

[VNA]

And on top of that the minimum wage has been adopted as a standard wage by private industry.

So not only are those on higher wages (most of us on this forum?) subsidising private industry (ie their shareholders) but it's another reason why the economy won't pick up.  People on the minimum wage don't have money to spend. 

A low wage economy will become a going nowhere economy.

[nick crisp]

So not only are those on higher wages (most of us on this forum?)

:rollin :'(

[VNA]

By higher I mean above the minimum wage.

I just don't think I'd be running my Fazer thou if I was on a minimum wage rate.

And many folks working full time on a minimum wage can't make ends meet, a lot claim benefits.

Who pays for those benefits, those benefits that effectively subsidise many big companies. 

[lew600fazer]

By higher I mean above the minimum wage.

I just don't think I'd be running my Fazer thou if I was on a minimum wage rate.

And many folks working full time on a minimum wage can't make ends meet, a lot claim benefits.

Who pays for those benefits, those benefits that effectively subsidise many big companies.

So we agree then we Bernie could put a wee drop more into the pot