Touring Europe

[nick crisp]

Has anyone done this just finding hotels as you go? What are the good and bad points of doing it this way? Is there a website with biker-recommended hotels around Europe? Thinking of maybe next year if I can scrape together the dosh. Not decided on any definite route, would like to free-wheel it if poss. Avoiding the more expensive options, what's a realistic budget for, say, 2 weeks, without being totally strapped? And does anyone else fancy joining me (give me a bit more motivation/enjoyment)?
Would be nice to keep this thread running as a general touring-abroad hints and tips page.

[adeejaysdelight]

Nick,

I toured Europe with my good lady last year (in the Saab). We booked the more expensive places, like Amsterdam, Venice and Florence. That way we knew we were going to stay somewhere nice and not get ripped off. The smaller places en-route, like in the Alsace, south of Germany and Austria, we found along the way. We also took a small tent just in case we found ourselves in the middle of nowhere at silly o clock. Which we did, a few times. We also had the tablet with us, so if we found that on the day prices for a hotel were expensive in a particular town, we would go get a coffee and jump online and find the best deal for that hotel  . Did that a few times too.

I would budget at least £100 per day, including your fuel. You can go ahead and add the cost of getting over the water on top of that too. We spent around £7G in 3 weeks, but we had a blast. We scrimped for 2 years for that holiday and we planned to come home with nothing more than memories and a full camera roll. Job done.

Pros of booking in advance - You now exactly how much your accommodation is going to cost and you can determine the standard you are going to be staying in as you go. 5* all the way, or budget with a treat at the end of each week, whatever you decide is best. You can also read reviews on places and pick exact locations based on things you would like to see and do whilst away (probably not everyday on the bike).
Cons - You have to find your accommodation, sometimes passing several places on the way. Some places you book online are not as central as you may have though (or they said).
Pros of finding as you go - You are totally free to do what you like.
Cons - Sometimes you find yourself passing by town after town after town without wanting to commit to anywhere (incase the next tow is better, and usually is, once you drive through it in the morning  :lol ). You have no idea how much it will cost. Getting on and off the bike to ask hotel tariffs in 40 degree heat is going to get old fast. So a few time you will probably over pay just because you are dun for the day.

I find a mix is best. A rough route with a few set places for peace of mind, and a few days of "as the wind blows".

I am off to the Nurburgring with a friend on September 13th. We are touring Holland, Germany, France and a day in Belgium. I have booked a house in Nurburg for 3 day, from which we can explore the region (Koblenz, Bonn...), an apartment I stayed in last year in south Germany (Tenningen) for 2 nights (a day at Europa park and not on the bike) and our last night in Amsterdam. The rest of it we are just hitting the road. About a 60/40 split.

Hope this helps

[Phil]

I agree withadeejaysdelight, although I dont bother with a tent.

Following on from this thread, http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,9093.0.html

This place is in Braunfels in Germany from €27 a night for a single room, not onsuite but own bathroom down the corridor. Their other rooms are onsuite.
http://www.amturm.de/motorradprogramme/p...index.html
Just a pub with rooms above but friendly place. Fantastic setting next to the castle.
There are some real gems out there off the beaten track.

Part of a group of hotels linked to Biker Connection.
http://biker-connection.road-concept.eu/...ouren.html

Most places in Germany are biker friendly I've found.

[nick crisp]

Nick,

I toured Europe with my good lady last year (in the Saab). We booked the more expensive places, like Amsterdam, Venice and Florence. That way we knew we were going to stay somewhere nice and not get ripped off. The smaller places en-route, like in the Alsace, south of Germany and Austria, we found along the way. We also took a small tent just in case we found ourselves in the middle of nowhere at silly o clock. Which we did, a few times. We also had the tablet with us, so if we found that on the day prices for a hotel were expensive in a particular town, we would go get a coffee and jump online and find the best deal for that hotel  . Did that a few times too

I would budget at least £100 per day, including your fuel. You can go ahead and add the cost of getting over the water on top of that too. We spent around £7G in 3 weeks, but we had a blast. We scrimped for 2 years for that holiday and we planned to come home with nothing more than memories and a full camera roll. Job done.

Pros of booking in advance - You now exactly how much your accommodation is going to cost and you can determine the standard you are going to be staying in as you go. 5* all the way, or budget with a treat at the end of each week, whatever you decide is best. You can also read reviews on places and pick exact locations based on things you would like to see and do whilst away (probably not everyday on the bike).
Cons - You have to find your accommodation, sometimes passing several places on the way. Some places you book online are not as central as you may have though (or they said).
Pros of finding as you go - You are totally free to do what you like.
Cons - Sometimes you find yourself passing by town after town after town without wanting to commit to anywhere (incase the next tow is better, and usually is, once you drive through it in the morning  :lol ). You have no idea how much it will cost. Getting on and off the bike to ask hotel tariffs in 40 degree heat is going to get old fast. So a few time you will probably over pay just because you are dun for the day.

I find a mix is best. A rough route with a few set places for peace of mind, and a few days of "as the wind blows".

I am off to the Nurburgring with a friend on September 13th. We are touring Holland, Germany, France and a day in Belgium. I have booked a house in Nurburg for 3 day, from which we can explore the region (Koblenz, Bonn...), an apartment I stayed in last year in south Germany (Tenningen) for 2 nights (a day at Europa park and not on the bike) and our last night in Amsterdam. The rest of it we are just hitting the road. About a 60/40 split.

Hope this helps

Looks like some good advice there - many thanks.
I'm thinking about it now to give myself as much time as possible to get the money together (although still got to spend a fair bit on the bike and some new gear yet this year), and get some ideas of how I really want to do it. I've done a fair bit of UK touring with the tent now, camping is just starting to get a bit old for me now (read I'm getting a bit too decrepit for camping!), but the idea of taking a small tent and basics "just in case" sounds like a good one. I definitely won't be able to afford the more expensive hotels, just as long as I can get a good night's kip (without having to worry about whether I'll still have a bike in the morning!) and shower facilities etc. I think I'll sit back and let this thread roll (if it will), plenty of time to pick up some more tips.
I did consider some of the guided biking tours just to get me going, but don't like the idea of having mileages pre-set for me every day, as these old broken bones sometimes just scream to me "enough for today!" and would like to have a rest day here and there when I need to.
Two weeks is probably going to be realistic for me money-wise, although if I could find a way to extend it, I would of course. Still, can't see a whole continent in one trip! The Alps and/or Dolomites would be high on my priority of areas to see (love the mountains!).
And thanks for those links Phil (just caught before posting this).

[Phil]

I've only done one guided holiday in Morocco. If the group gets on well and is all the same riding standard, no problem. If someone in your group is very slow its a pain in the arse.

Now I remember it, I did get caught out by not pre-booking another time. All of the hotels in Gent Belgium were full, I think the tour de France was visiting or something like that. Next town on the way back home was Bruges and that was 90% booked out. Luckily a hotellier in Gent looked on booking.com for me, otherwise it would have been dark by the time I found somewhere.
I spotted this place on the outskirts. £100 a night. The most expensive place Ive ever stayed at on tour, but it was unique.
http://www.booking.com/hotel/be/kasteel-...522;dcid=1

If you want to wing the acommodation on the way, Id say have a look on booking.com first in the general area to see if there are any busy times like trade fairs/shows/major events on.

[sadlonelygit]

pros to booking ahead

you know you've got a room for the night
you know what it's going to cost.....roughly
you choose where you want to stay

cons

you have to find the bloody place
if you decide you like it there, generally you can't stop longer as the room is let
if the place is a hole.....you've booked, tough

the laissez-faire approach

pros

you're not tied

cons

you might spend 2hrs going around biarritz trying to find 'reasonably priced' accommodation at 10pm (there is some, but you have to book it!)

my advice would be book the major stops/places she has expressed an interest in going and wing the rest.
at least in europe you get treated like a human being when you turn up on a bike!

if you have a vague itinery then perhaps the combined wisdom and knowledge of the forum could offer some advice as to places to stop.

finally, if you are stopping in 1 area and touring out, then hiring a gite (in france) is a cost effective option if split between 4 or more.

[pilninggas]

i've been to Europe quite a few times (short and longer breaks), i camp and tend to clock miles but not at the detriment of my enjoyment.

I posted this up on a couple of other forums:

For me i want to get a decent way into Europe (Alps) without too much cost. You can stay in hotels (most exp), youth hostels (i have done this very cheap in many countries), adlers, zimmers, pensions, apartments, guesthouses. In the ski resorts and off of the beaten track some can be cheaper (euro25 /night in the summer, when business is not skiers). I generally camp though - between 8-22 euro a night. Why camp? well 90% of sites always have space for a tent and my overall costs are 25% lower. Problems with camping: amount of kit to carry, can be wet/cold, can be a pain if in transit to pitch/strike camp each day. I do have a routine. A bloody good tent also means quite pitch/strike times and plenty of dry space (I have an Italian tent, a Brenner, made for alpine climbers)

I also take a folding gas stove, so i can brew-up and eat hot food when i like. If i dont take it i spend 30euro a day on food drink minimum.

Your bike needs to be in decent fettle: i don't get it serviced beforehand (some do, I just stick to standard service routines), but i do check everything over and make sure i am not going to end up stuck on the side of the road (obviously always a chance). I do take a puncture repair kit.

Also i dont think i'll do 400miles everyday - going down i did 850 miles from bristol to southern Germany on day 1, but after this i did mostly lower mileages and avoided motorways. The first time i went into europe i thought yeah i'm gonna do munich-vienna-bratislava-berlin etc, but it was just silly, all you are gonna see is white-lines and tarmac. The roads you want to ride will be away from motorways, but you will need them to cover large distances. Remember you may want to visit a lake, castle, shopping district, historic town or whatever - arriving at 3pm to leave again at 9am the next morning will not allow you to do it properly.

I never worry about travelling alone, i enjoy it and always seem to meet people on my travels. I have been on holiday with my mates and sometimes having your own schedule is easier than compromising with someone else.

Remember there may be days when riding is not what you want to do (a break, the weather) so i try to camp in or near to towns - this bit is easier if you are hotelling etc.

HTh

[Tmation]

After many tours to Europe my preference is to have one place as a base (or sometimes a two centre holiday). Spend one or two days getting there and then unpack and relax. As a first tour I would suggest the Ardennes and Eiffel mountains area or the Harz mountains. Some of the self guided tours can be a gentle introduction into touring abroad as they usually include ferries, hotels and routes http://mcitours.com/selfguided_motorcycle_tours/.


For the Ardennes/Eiffel area you could stay somewhere like Aarchen or Trier, you can do the Mosel valley and Nurburgring form same place. Its only 3 to 4 hours from Zeebrugge or Rotterdam/Hoek Van Holland, a bit more from Calais. There are a few biker type hotels/guest houses in the area @ around 35 - 40 Euros a night.


The Harz is about 5 to 6 hours from the Dutch and Belgium ports or a full day from Calais. I took 8 hours to get from the Harz to Europort Rotterdam going across country (just using motorways in Holland) going through an area called the fazerburgland (not sure of the spelling)



I have just got back from a week in Germany on my own and had a brilliant time, I did two nights in the westerwald and three in the Harz. In the Harz I stopped at the Pension Roesneck run buy a British couple, it cost 35 Euro a night for a single on suite room and beer was 2.5 Euro for a .5L bottle. I can highly recommend it and they also loaded up routes around the Harz and other destinations on my GPS for free. Its located in the middle od bad lauterburg which has lots of good restaurants and bars. The area has loads to see and do if you need a day off the bike. [size=78%]http://www.harzbiker.co.uk/[/size]


[/size]Here is a better video of the Kyffhauser, one of the more intense roads in the Harz (There are loads and loads of others all mostly empty), I must sort out how to imbed the video rather than just the link.


http://youtu.be/VGqVyhC6Il4

[nick crisp]

Yes, I think I like the idea of using a couple of bases so I don't have to do mega-mileage every day. Maybe 2 days to get to 1st destination with an overnight at the midway point. Then 3-4 days at 1st destination with rideouts from there. Then move to 2nd destination and repeat. Then 2 days return journey. That all sounds like a nicer pace, with more time to take in the scenery. Could this be the start of a plan?!! :eek

[adeejaysdelight]

Sounds like the start of a plan to me. Now all you have to do is decide on what you fancy seeing/doing on the mainland or a theme (racing/historical/bike manufacturers/WWll...) and go from there 

[ChristoT]

The latest issue of Ride has a free tour guide to France. I've flipped through it, there are some nice looking ones there.

Of course, I'm biased, but the Normandy and Brittany route looks nice. The first overnight stop is Dinan; my hometown. Some really lovely roads around there! And the scenery is just phenomenal.

If you go to Dinan, and if you like cider, be sure to pick up a couple of bottles of Val de Rance. It's made in a factory 5 minutes from Dinan, and has won prizes worldwide to boot! Ask Exup and Dead Eye what they thought when they sampled some of the bottles I brought back last time! 

Day three of that route would take you near Porcaro, and the Madone des Motards (14th and 15th of August) if you go then too!

[nick crisp]

France I would definitely like to see a bit of, but the Alps has to be my first priority. I love the mountains, which is why I always head to Scotland/Wales/Lake District when I go in the UK. Northern France is a bit more accessible so I feel I can put it off a little longer. I like the idea of visiting some historical Norman sites and exploring some of the river valleys, so maybe in time.

[andybesy]

In May we did:

Friday: Finished work at lunchtime, rode Derby to Canterbury, stayed over night in Travel lodge. Pub.

Saturday: Ferry to Calais, ride to Luxembourg (beautiful). Highly recommended as an overnight stop if your in the area, nice city, German style bars, cheap drink and petrol. Stayed Hilton.

Sunday: Ride south through Germany, bit of a play on auto ban (135mph!) and through Black Forrest region (beautiful, great fast roads) and in to Switzerland (stunningly beautiful). Stayed Zurich Best Western.

Monday: Ride across Switzerland (did I say it's beautiful?), up and over the alps, 2100m climb, snowy at the top, then drop down via a hardcore pass in torrential rain in to North Western Italy. Stayed near Milan.

Tuesday: Ride West to East across Northern Italy around Lake Como and through a 30km tunnel! Through Dolomite Italian Alp region. Stayed in a fantastic and friendly hotel in Trento (best AND cheapest of the trip).

Wednesday: Headed North via Bolzano, up and over Alps once more, via a snowy pass, dropping down in to Austria (beautiful), then on to Stuttgart in Germany.

Thursday: Back to Luxembourg, more booze.

Friday: Back to Calais, Ferry, then carry on home to Derby (about 550miles in one go!)

This was a first European tour, and we learned a lot.

Firstly, we certainly did too many miles in too short a time. 2,200 miles in eight days. I'm accustomed to high millage, and for the most part I enjoyed the riding tremendously despite minor discomfort, but there were times when it was painful.

But then again the route did give me a fantastic perspective on Western Europe as a whole which I didn't have before despite having visited many of these places by air travel.

We knew certain key areas which we'd targeted were going to be scenic with great roads, but I was genuinely surprised that perhaps 80% of our (fairly carefully planned) route led us through stunningly beautiful scenery with often thrilling roads - even those parts we had considered just motorway miles necessary to get where we were going surprised us.

Having seen so much on the first trip, I have a better perspective on where I'd like to revisit on a second. The areas that really stand out are Luxembourg, the Black Forest region of Germany, Switzerland and North Eastern Italy (dolomites). These were all stunningly beautiful with amazing roads - I'm also very much in to the rugged twisting beauty of the mountain road and these fit the bill perfectly.

Bear in mind that you can't really ride through the Alps, naturally the roads are passes and as such tend to be focused on getting from one side to another. And so if Alps are your thing then you really need to be thinking in terms of criss-crossing them from one country to another. But there are may great passes on which to do that - lookup the Stelvio pass if you fancy one of the more challenging ones!

In terms of cost, we had budgeted £1000 and came in a little under. I don't think that's bad for such an adventure!

We did hotels because not everyone in the group was comfortable camping, and a minimum of 4 star because one person in particular has too much money and is kinda stuck up.  :rolleyes  That was about £50/night for accommodation - you can get the Hilton for that in most of these places if you book a couple of months in advance, although personally I prefer somewhere with a bit more character. But The main reason for choosing the big hotels was parking security, we took a long chain and chained all four bikes together each night.

If I were to do it again I'd consider mixing in a bit of camping to reduce costs, with pit stops at hotels to freshen up. But it all depends on what suits the group as a whole.

I think I spent about £260 on petrol. Certainly less than 300. Being on a budget it all went on the credit card, which made it easy to total up and work out some figures. Incidentally if my calculations are correct it worked out at 72mpg, but I haven't mentioned that before because it sounded too good to be true! I spent the least, the group consisting of a FZS 600, FZ 800, some sort of Honda 1000 and ZZR 1400.

Spending money was minimal because we were knackered at the end of the day. I'd like to think next time I'll have more energy for a few drinks and a nice meal in the evening, but these trips are more about the days then the evenings, and if you've tired yourself out then I tend to view that as a good sign.

I wrote more than expected, but could carry on, there's so much to say. You mentioned you might invite others along? If once you've done your research you decide you'd like to do that then I may well be keen, but would have to let you know nearer the time, subject to holiday, funds etc of course. If you fancy a shorter tour meanwhile then hit me up any time - I nearly got in touch after you posted about your Welsh tour but couldn't get away from work that week. Same goes to anyone, I'm always up for an adventure.

Have a great time, and enjoy planning it, it's part of the fun

Andy

[nick crisp]

Good post Andy. That does sound like too much mileage in a week for me nowadays, would be looking to ease the pace down a bit on a Euro trip, don't want it to be a chore. Yes I'm aware that Alpine riding means criss-crossing the mountains via passes. This is where I need to know more. Is it feasible to do day trips from one place, heading out into the mountains, maybe doing a loop via 2 passes to return to same destination in a day, or would that be too long a trip? Frankly, as it's the scenery I'd be going for, I wouldn't mind doing there-back rides on the same road.
Otherwise, I'd have to have another rethink, with overnights in more places? Which is fine as long as I don't have to do silly miles every day.
Your overall budget (under £1000) surprises me, and makes the whole idea seem more do-able, although I'd try to allow for more than this so I could relax a little with the spending. Plus, depending on what places I find, I certainly wouldn't be looking for outright luxury.
Camping is OK, it's just that if the weather turns sour it can spoil what could be a trip of a lifetime for me. Plus all the extra weight and bulk you'd have to carry, packing/unpacking every time you move etc. I haven't totally discounted it yet, but not sure it's how I'd want to go.
I'd certainly welcome anybody else to join me. Although all my UK trips I've done alone, it would add that extra dimension to have some company to share the enjoyment with. But I should warn you - I won't be trying to get the fastest possible times on those mountain roads! In fact, others could get fed up with how often I want to stop to get the camera out! Technically challenging roads don't daunt me, because I'm happy to take things slow where it's more sensible to do so. I'm happy to let the GSXR crews go sailing past in a blur!
My Welsh tour turned out to be a bit of a flop! I was so knackered after doing the Lofo ride on the Sunday, riding to Wales on Monday with an evening ride out, steaming hot sunshine with no relief and the tent an oven when I got back to it in the evenings - and the shower block on the campsite was the same, so I didn't feel particularly refreshed even after a shower. Then got home to find I'd come down with a viral infection! So you didn't miss much there.
But lots of time to plan (and save) yet. Haven't even figured out what would be the best time of year to do it in.
But thanks for your post, every one so far has been a great help in showing me what's best and what to avoid.

[pilninggas]

Good post Andy. That does sound like too much mileage in a week for me nowadays, would be looking to ease the pace down a bit on a Euro trip, don't want it to be a chore. Yes I'm aware that Alpine riding means criss-crossing the mountains via passes. This is where I need to know more. Is it feasible to do day trips from one place, heading out into the mountains, maybe doing a loop via 2 passes to return to same destination in a day, or would that be too long a trip? Frankly, as it's the scenery I'd be going for, I wouldn't mind doing there-back rides on the same road.
Otherwise, I'd have to have another rethink, with overnights in more places? Which is fine as long as I don't have to do silly miles every day.
Your overall budget (under £1000) surprises me, and makes the whole idea seem more do-able, although I'd try to allow for more than this so I could relax a little with the spending. Plus, depending on what places I find, I certainly wouldn't be looking for outright luxury.
Camping is OK, it's just that if the weather turns sour it can spoil what could be a trip of a lifetime for me. Plus all the extra weight and bulk you'd have to carry, packing/unpacking every time you move etc. I haven't totally discounted it yet, but not sure it's how I'd want to go.
I'd certainly welcome anybody else to join me. Although all my UK trips I've done alone, it would add that extra dimension to have some company to share the enjoyment with. But I should warn you - I won't be trying to get the fastest possible times on those mountain roads! In fact, others could get fed up with how often I want to stop to get the camera out! Technically challenging roads don't daunt me, because I'm happy to take things slow where it's more sensible to do so. I'm happy to let the GSXR crews go sailing past in a blur!
My Welsh tour turned out to be a bit of a flop! I was so knackered after doing the Lofo ride on the Sunday, riding to Wales on Monday with an evening ride out, steaming hot sunshine with no relief and the tent an oven when I got back to it in the evenings - and the shower block on the campsite was the same, so I didn't feel particularly refreshed even after a shower. Then got home to find I'd come down with a viral infection! So you didn't miss much there.
But lots of time to plan (and save) yet. Haven't even figured out what would be the best time of year to do it in.
But thanks for your post, every one so far has been a great help in showing me what's best and what to avoid.

I've done similar stuff to Andy's post too.  I have used bolzano as a base camp; from there you can do a whole load of mountain passes and then return to Bolzano, meaning you are not constantly pitching and striking camp.  Stelvio is an hour to the west, the passes of the Dolomites start 45minutes to the east.

Last year i did 13 days and it ran me £850.  I'm off on thursday and have 2 returns booked 1@ 14 days and 1@21 days so i can decide how things are going - the worst it will cost me is £1100.

The weather in  the Alps (excluding bavaria, which is a beautiful place but can be wet) tends to be hot/dry in the day and thundery in the evening [sound familiar?!].  having said that I have got soaked, but having a decent tent and hard luggage helps.

Everyone rides at their own pace, the sportsbike fellas are not the fastest, the Austrians on BMs tend to set the pace - they are used to the roads and also have the suspension to iron out an bumps.

When I go on thursday day one, barring delays I intend to be in Freiburg im Breisgau (google it) by 8pm, leaving Bristol at 600am, after this i'll be doing far less miles unless I pick an entirely different route between now and then!).

here's my trip from last year:

http://s695.photobucket.com/user/pilning...t=3&page=1
 

[nick crisp]

That looks fantastic Pilninggas. That's the kind of scenery/roads I'm looking to experience! Mountains are like magnets to me - I'm either riding round them or trekking through them (in this country, anyway). In my next life, I think I'll learn to climb, too! Have a good trip on Thursday, look forward to seeing/reading an extensive account when you get back

[sadlonelygit]

Now we have a rough idea of what you are looking for, oppenau just off the b500. There's a lovely b&b that let you use their garage and it was €15pp a night. Fantstic roads, baden-baden to the north, freiburg/titisee to the south, vosges to the west
for alps, davos as a base, hotel with witches all over it was €40 a night, but when you have done 40 alpine hairpins, you'll be sick of them! Check to see if the passes are open, many are shut up to may.
Vosges, geradmer as a base (gite) weather can be funny.
Ardeche
ligurian alps
julian alps
pyrenees
grossglockner
eiffel region
knock yer socks off!

[Slaninar]

If camping is reduced cost, not the thing of choice, something you like, prefer - than DON'T DO IT - it's a holliday.

I love camping. In some places it can be more expensive than cheap accomodation.

If traveling in the summer time, when it is nice and warm, you can camp near the water. Put a tent up at night, remove it in the morning - you can go unnoticed, without fines or having to pay (do it outside camp sites, of course - and a bit away from the road).


Most money is spent on petrol these days - it's becoming more and more expensive.

My dream was to go to the seaside on a motorcycle. When I arrived there, put up a camp and used it as a "base" to go to the local beaches, swim everyday. Touring Europe, as a continent, not seasides, seems OK, but I'd much rather do it on a bicycle - get to feel and see more of the countryside that way, take it slower. If I had long enough holiday that is.

Travelling alone is perfect when all is well. I travel most of the time alone. But in case something bad happens, it is good to have at least one man/woman you can trust.

[Simon.Pieman]

In the Harz I stopped at the Pension Roesneck run buy a British couple.

Lovely couple, Jackie and Greg (and their dog Bailey) I've known them for a few years and usually manage to get over to the Harz once a year to see them. I was there just over a month ago for a week and rode with Greg everyday, as you no doubt know already he is a very fine rider indeed and to follow him is an education -no chicken strips on my Yamaha when I left! I got home via Kassel then on to Koln, Antwerp, Brugge then Calais. I should have retraced my route over there though, from the ferry I headed for Heidelberg where I stayed the night then took the glorious, twisty ans scenic '27' North to the Harz. I can thoroughly reccomend the Pension Roseneck, you need to book in advance though.
Pass me another Schierker......

[fireblake]

As i've mentioned in another thread i'm off to Munich in August to visit my Niece and her family but will be flying down and hiring a bike. Then i'll have the days to myself to visit as much as possible in and around southern Germany. I think Stelvio is about 450KM's away so might try to visit that. I really must sit down and get my itinerary sorted.




Mickey