whose fault ? opinions ?

[ChristoT]

No wonder you've been techey today after such a traumatic incident!! Glad you're ok, hope your nerves are ok too.

Ride safe!

[AdieR]

Lawrence:

"So because you can't see well you just drive out?  She should've edged out slowly til she could see it was clear." 
The point I were making here was that even if she had crept forward to look, IMO the rider had no chance of seeing her either until the car was half-way out (therefore possibly causing him to swerve to avoid her anyhow), and thus the rider could have done with less acceleration than he was using, to give him time to think through the likely risks.

There always seems to be an assumption in these kind of bike accidents that the biker is *never* to blame, which I think is potentially dangerous.
IMO, every accident or near miss (regardless of whose error it was) should be an opportunity to think through ways to avoid a repeat (ie, "Was that avoidable? What could I have done differently?" etc).

I'm not saying that it'll magically stop dozy drivers from flattening a biker (some drivers really ought to get a guide dog and let the dog drive instead), but it might just help mitigate some of the risks, bearing in mind the inherent vulnerability we face on bikes.

Saying "it's someone else's fault" from a hospital bed with smashed-up bones, a smashed-up bike and possibly weeks off work with no income isn't particularly comforting.

One piece of advice I got from a mate at work a few years back (and which has stuck with me): "It isn't wet roads, or diesel spills, or dozy drivers that are a problem, it's not knowing how to deal with them that's a problem".

[Dead Eye]

No wonder you've been techey today after such a traumatic incident!! Glad you're ok, hope your nerves are ok too.

Ride safe!

Just so that simonm doesn't blow a blood vessel - IT WASN'T HIM!

It was just a video he found and he was asking for peoples opinions...

Don't worry si, I got your back

[Lawrence]

There always seems to be an assumption in these kind of bike accidents that the biker is *never* to blame, which I think is potentially dangerous.
IMO, every accident or near miss (regardless of whose error it was) should be an opportunity to think through ways to avoid a repeat (ie, "Was that avoidable? What could I have done differently?" etc).

I'm not saying that it'll magically stop dozy drivers from flattening a biker (some drivers really ought to get a guide dog and let the dog drive instead), but it might just help mitigate some of the risks, bearing in mind the inherent vulnerability we face on bikes.

Agreed, accidents will always be avoidable and it's just a case of putting yourself in a position where you can see what's going on properly.

[nick crisp]

[quote author=AdieR link=topic=8553.msg84948#msg84948 date=1372651281]
There always seems to be an assumption in these kind of bike accidents that the biker is *never* to blame, which I think is potentially dangerous.
IMO, every accident or near miss (regardless of whose error it was) should be an opportunity to think through ways to avoid a repeat (ie, "Was that avoidable? What could I have done differently?" etc).

I'm not saying that it'll magically stop dozy drivers from flattening a biker (some drivers really ought to get a guide dog and let the dog drive instead), but it might just help mitigate some of the risks, bearing in mind the inherent vulnerability we face on bikes.

Agreed, accidents will always be avoidable and it's just a case of putting yourself in a position where you can see what's going on properly.
[/quote]
I don't think accidents are always avoidable. Human error is a very common trait among us, and even if you do everything right, there's still a risk. So it has to be about risk reduction. I've been very reluctant to comment on this video, as we are seeing it from a camera-eye point of view, a picture only. The human senses (usually) pick up so much more than what a camera sees, and even the people involved may not remember it the same way. Soldiers who have been in live combat situations together will remember things, and indeed experience things, quite differently to each other, though they may have been only yards apart when events unfolded. I believe a similar process takes place in events such as this accident. Everybody's perceptions are different. And you may say " the camera doesn't lie" - well, maybe not, but it doesn't "see" everything either. In court, you can bet the two sides would not rely purely on the camera evidence, and with good reason.

[rayburn600]

I wonder if the biker had his Headlights on..............?

Just lately I have started to flash my lights & point to the front faring at other bikers who don't have them on.

[Andy FZS]

I'm always careful about flashing my lights as people often take this as a sign to pull out in front of you. .........

[nick crisp]

Another unnecessary distraction too...
Bearing in mind that flashing lights/horn are only supposed to be used to let others know you are there.

[Phil]

So what do we reckon the bike was. I'm guessing an older Honda 600 Hornet with the high level pipe.
My Fazer8 has 50mph on the clock @ 6,000rpm (47mph-ish realworld) , so would guess that bike would be doing less.

[noggythenog]

Ok im gonna fess up here, i dont put my lights on any more.I understand why people do but then again i feel personally that the fazer lights are so crap in the dark that it's nigh on pointless to expect them to stand out in the day.Plus i want my battery to get the best charge it can get whilst out and about.
Without having them on i dont have that safety blanket of thinking someone will see them so i act appropriately & expect nobody to see me.I only do sunny weather country road stuff though so i suppose if it was overcast or raining & i was in the city then i probably would put them on.

[simonm]

[quote author=ChristoT link=topic=8553.msg84932#msg84932 date=1372632945]
No wonder you've been techey today after such a traumatic incident!! Glad you're ok, hope your nerves are ok too.

Ride safe!

Just so that simonm doesn't blow a blood vessel - IT WASN'T HIM!

It was just a video he found and he was asking for peoples opinions...

Don't worry si, I got your back
[/quote]
Thanks deadeye.  If you can reply on my behalf in the future it'll stop me getting in trouble and putting my foot in it.  :lol.  I'll get the right of attorney written up  .

[Streetbudgie]

My opinion: Excessive acceleration in a built up area but the driver of the car should have been more cautious. Avoidable but drivers fault for emerging.

Plus 1 - wow we agreed on something!

[simonm]

[quote author=simonm link=topic=8553.msg84299#msg84299 date=1372406392]
My opinion: Excessive acceleration in a built up area but the driver of the car should have been more cautious. Avoidable but drivers fault for emerging.

Plus 1 - wow we agreed on something!
[/quote]
However unlikely it seemed probability is that it had to happen once.  I'm sure it won't again, don't panic I'm not contagious.  :rollin