A question of respect (let the flaming begin...)

[noggythenog]

I never heard of that very sensible technique being called "Off-siding" before, thought it was just common sense, it's a learning day for me obviously...

This was my reference.

Often giving something a name like this can create a negative image when really it is using all of the road available to your advantage,just like popping out into the other lane to view the road ahead before commiting to an overtake,if somethings coming you just pop back in.


Some years back i did a 1 week blue lights driving course with the army,cheap focers wouldnt pay for the IAM :o ,i do remember us being encouraged to use as much of the road as possible & while we werent exactly offsiding,(mostly as we were in an 8 tonne truck) we would regularly cross the lines,if anything was coming it was easy to tighten the corner but doing the opposite & going in too shallow,especially with the weight, could fire you out onto the other side at the wrong point.


It makes perfect sense to me,only thing that slightly concerms me with being on a bike is cornering over the middle where the 2 sides meet due to the crap & markings etc.


Ok buzz so i only just noticed your link & it seems that off siding means something kinda different to what i was on about,another problem with fancy names,oh dear we'll all start ranting about nameology next :lol

[simonm]

I never heard of that very sensible technique being called "Off-siding" before, thought it was just common sense, it's a learning day for me obviously...

This was my reference.

That was my 'reference' too

[maddog04]

I'm doing the IAM skills for life course at the mo and even if I don't pass the advanced test, I've learnt so much in 3 weeks (3 half days in reality)
off siding is a term I don't know but I think its the same as what I'm seeing the instructors do. On a 2 way single lane road (1 lane in each direction) my lane is divided in to positions 1 2 & 3 depending on where you are in the lane, pos 1 nr the gutter, pos 3 nr the centre line. On the oppo lane you have positions 4 5 & 6 but still in your direction of travel. Instructors use 4 5 & 6 to observe you and if they're leading then they use it for maximum early observations of oncoming traffic around bends. It has it's pros and cons.............good observation for making progress but the cons are that you have to be travelling fast enough to get back over the line if something happens or some boy racer in a car or on a bike undercuts you. They will not let us cross the line yet as its deemed too risky at this stage

[stevierst]

Yeah never heard of the trem "off siding" either. The left bend overtake technique used to be known as "the suicide sweep". :eek
Since doing my advanced test s few years ago, it's perefectly safe if done correctly in the right circumstances, it's just a case of proper observation.

[simonm]

[quote author=Buzz link=topic=7046.msg67038#msg67038 date=1364979988]
I never heard of that very sensible technique being called "Off-siding" before, thought it was just common sense, it's a learning day for me obviously...

This was my reference.

Often giving something a name like this can create a negative image when really it is using all of the road available to your advantage,just like popping out into the other lane to view the road ahead before commiting to an overtake,if somethings coming you just pop back in.


Some years back i did a 1 week blue lights driving course with the army,cheap focers wouldnt pay for the IAM :o ,i do remember us being encouraged to use as much of the road as possible & while we werent exactly offsiding,(mostly as we were in an 8 tonne truck) we would regularly cross the lines,if anything was coming it was easy to tighten the corner but doing the opposite & going in too shallow,especially with the weight, could fire you out onto the other side at the wrong point.


It makes perfect sense to me,only thing that slightly concerms me with being on a bike is cornering over the middle where the 2 sides meet due to the crap & markings etc.


Ok buzz so i only just noticed your link & it seems that off siding means something kinda different to what i was on about,another problem with fancy names,oh dear we'll all start ranting about nameology next :lol
[/quote]


I will use as much of width the road as I feel necessary provided it's safe to do so.  Generally I find if I can see 40 metres or so ahead it's enough distance for me to hang back from the car in front and have a peek if I'm looking to overtake or find out if the reason the traffic is slowing is an accident or a tractor etc.


I'd be a lot happier doing it in a car than on a bike, but given the extra heigh of the riding position of a bike, I don't feel that it would be needed often.  Generally if I'm on the bike there are plenty of overtaking opportunities anyway, so missing one isn't really going to be an issue  :lol

[mcsuffolk]

Offsiding is something that is taught on the police advanced motorcycle and car course and is a pass or fail element of the course.... It has great advances and at times is extremely useful andimproves safety..... However if used incorrectly is a serious danger.... It is not encouraged on thestandard police riding course typically as the risk of poor judgement is so high...... I use it when I need to....


As for the police comments if any of us do wrong we should expect consequences..... These days too many people try to blame others for their own problems. I'm not saying every officer is perfect, far from it. Officers are taken from the community as represent the community which does include bad as well as good. All officers are taught interaction management, ie talking to people, based on the physiological principle called betaris box. This revolves around the persons behaviour, including voice, language and actions suggesting how an officer should deal with them..... Like anyprinciple there are always exceptions and also officers from time to time will miss read signs.... Nobody is perfect, it should be about learning from every interaction.....

[simonm]

Yeah never heard of the trem "off siding" either. The left bend overtake technique used to be known as "the suicide sweep". :eek
Since doing my advanced test s few years ago, it's perefectly safe if done correctly in the right circumstances, it's just a case of proper observation.

IMO overtaking on a left hand turn is not something that I'd do unless it was a gradual downhill which straightened out or when to the right and the carriageway was clear for a damn long way.


In other words, once in a blue moon.  Maybe even less.

[maddog04]

as for the original post, the cop may have been on "silent approach" and as said by others, your lack of mirrors has contributed to the car having to break (something BTW that pisses me off when cars do it to me and cut me up...........don't think they've ever heard of the 2 second rule!)
treat others as you'd like to be treated yourself and you wont go far wrong in life, you'll always get some numpty but they tend to be a minority in all walks of life, a simple "sorry officer, I just misjudged your speed" would probably have placated him/her. Been pulled a few times in the car and being polite has paid off, got done once in a works van, coned lane for workmen but no one working and doing 40 in a 30; car ahead was going away from me put never got stopped, lad was writing the ticket before I'd stopped the van.............he must have had a score to settle with white van man!!
BTW, the bike cops on my course are really good and know their stuff

[maddog04]

just re read my last post, sorry if it sounds patronising in parts as I never intended it to be..............just common sense

[stevierst]

[quote author=stevierst link=topic=7046.msg67046#msg67046 date=1364981698]
Yeah never heard of the trem "off siding" either. The left bend overtake technique used to be known as "the suicide sweep". :eek
Since doing my advanced test s few years ago, it's perefectly safe if done correctly in the right circumstances, it's just a case of proper observation.

IMO overtaking on a left hand turn is not something that I'd do unless it was a gradual downhill which straightened out or when to the right and the carriageway was clear for a damn long way.


In other words, once in a blue moon.  Maybe even less.
[/quote]
It is an exceptional set of circumstances that make it a safe overtake. I got to admit, I don't do it often due to the roads round here not being too forgiving for it.

[simonm]

as for the original post, the cop may have been on "silent approach" and as said by others, your lack of mirrors has contributed to the car having to break (something BTW that pisses me off when cars do it to me and cut me up...........don't think they've ever heard of the 2 second rule!)
treat others as you'd like to be treated yourself and you wont go far wrong in life, you'll always get some numpty but they tend to be a minority in all walks of life, a simple "sorry officer, I just misjudged your speed" would probably have placated him/her. Been pulled a few times in the car and being polite has paid off, got done once in a works van, coned lane for workmen but no one working and doing 40 in a 30; car ahead was going away from me put never got stopped, lad was writing the ticket before I'd stopped the van.............he must have had a score to settle with white van man!!
BTW, the bike cops on my course are really good and know their stuff

my lack of mirrors ?  What an insane thing to say.  I described the situation, in order to do so I must have looked in my mirrors in order to recount it.  I don't exactly agree with your perspective, but that doesn't really matter.  I checked my mirrors, indicated, pulled out and cancelled my indication.  There was plenty of room for me to initiate and complete to manoeuvre  which I did.  We won't see eye to eye on this.  Never mind.

[simonm]

I don't mean to destroy your preconception Simon, but these people are normally weeded out during initial police selection, they're not difficult to spot.

If Quantum can get agents in to MI5, I'm sure they can get them in to the police force.  Remember that walls have ears.  :lol

[maddog04]

nothing insane about my comments mate, you looked in your mirrors and misjudged his speed hence he on top of you, happens to bikers all the time as cagers cant judge us

[Grahamm]

Generally my (limited) experience of encounters with the Police has been good, eg when someone broke into my shed or I had a problem with nuisance phone calls and even when I was pulled over on the M27 for (ahem) making a bit too much progress (he didn't give me a ticket because I wasn't riding like a twunt!) but I do know people who have met the "copper with an attitude" and had less than pleasant experiences although they were not trying to cause trouble themselves.

Not all Police are good, not all are bad.

As regards "off-siding" I'm going to put that in a new thread, I think...

[simonm]

nothing insane about my comments mate, you looked in your mirrors and misjudged his speed hence he on top of you, happens to bikers all the time as cagers cant judge us

I didn't misjudge his speed.  He wasn't on top of me.  He could have taken his foot off his accelerator when he saw me indicating since he was exceeding the speed limit at the time.  He didn't and proceeded to tailgate me.


You have you opinion, I have mine.  We disagree.  It is interesting to see how extreme opinions can be on situations which they were not involved in or even witness to.  I would like to think that I wouldn't judge someone so harshly when I wasn't there in person and are having the situation described.


I've learnt a lot from this thread.
Ty

[simonm]

Not all Police are good, not all are bad.

Amen to that.

As regards "off-siding" I'm going to put that in a new thread, I think...

I think that would be interesting..

[BBROWN1664]

Contrary to popular belief, if your pulling out makes the person already in that lane have to take avoiding action, be it through steering or changes to speed, you have done something wrong regardless of the speed that they are doing.

[simonm]

Contrary to popular belief, if your pulling out makes the person already in that lane have to take avoiding action, be it through steering or changes to speed, you have done something wrong regardless of the speed that they are doing.

Equally being in the overtaking lane when not overtaking (as the copper was doing) is equally wrong imo.

Does that also mean that if I pull out on dual carriageway to overtake 5 lorries doing 60mph, when I'm doing 70mph which allows someone doing 90+mph to catch up with me at the 4th lorry before I've completed the manoeuvre that I'm in the wrong  :eek

The world is more mad than I thought if that's a fact...... or did you make it up ? (factual evidence would be appreciated on that one

[BBROWN1664]

Just for you then Simon.

133
If you need to change lane, first use your mirrors and if necessary take a
quick sideways glance to make sure you will not force another road user to
change course or speed. When it is safe to do so, signal to indicate your
intentions to other road users and when clear, move over.

and can be found here https://www.gov.uk/general-rules-all-dri...133-to-143

[simonm]

Just for you then Simon.

133
If you need to change lane, first use your mirrors and if necessary take a
quick sideways glance to make sure you will not force another road user to
change course or speed. When it is safe to do so, signal to indicate your
intentions to other road users and when clear, move over.

and can be found here https://www.gov.uk/general-rules-all-dri...133-to-143

I'm sure that is equally applicable to traffic a quarter of a mile away with excessive speed. You're right and I'm wrong. I best not get caught then cos I'm not going to abide by that one in every situation.