headlight bulbs

[wideload]

hi guys would i do any harm to my bike by putting 100/90 watts bulbs in my headlights ? as i want better lights at night

[Tmation]

Yes, apart from being illegal you will most likely damage your wiring due to excessive current draw.


Ride magazine did a test last year on replacement lamps, try doing a search on the magazine website. You can vastly improve the light output with better bulbs of the same wattage.

[cable tie]

I've got some PIA bulbs but ther £45-£50 for 2 bulbs I must have been mad !!  and are much better and legal, what about a Hid kit 35w H4 high/low beam I've got a set but form Hids direct they do slim ballasts and the correct high/low bulbs and 6k looks awesome, also the latest kits Hids direct do come with the cap over the bulb to prevent dazzling oncoming traffic  cost mine was £69 off there interweb.

[b1k3rdude]

Hid kit 35w H4 high/low beam I've got a set but form Hids direct they do slim ballasts and the correct high/low bulbs and 6k looks awesome, also the latest kits Hids direct do come with the cap over the bulb to prevent dazzling oncoming traffic.

Trouble is when fitting HID bulbs to a "reflector" type headlight unit like the one in the fazer is the all the side scatter, which will dazzle other traffic and why it wont pass an MOT.

FYI. with regard to HID kits as of next year there will be fully illegal not just a grey area like it has been for the last few years. If you still want to fit a HID kit then your best of getting a pair of projector driving lights and retro fitting HIDS into them. The beam pattern will be far superior (I have them on my bandit) and if you wire in an auxiliary switch it wont effect the MOT, but technically the police may still have an issue with it. This is because the rules state you need projector based lights as well as self leveling suspension (and no bike I know of has the latter)

Another option which is perfectly legal is LED driving lights, they draw next to no power but the price is a bit steep -

http://www.riderz.co.uk/headlights-and-t...light.html

[PaulSmith]

...Trouble is when fitting HID bulbs to a "reflector" type headlight unit like the one in the fazer is the all the side scatter, which will dazzle other traffic and why it wont pass an MOT.
...

I am sorry, but that is BS. That fact that it gets repeated a lot does not make it any less BS.

The reflector will focus the light where it is supposed to go, it will align it (if the source is in the correct location). The reflector does not know (or care) how the light was generated, so it makes no difference to the alignment whether the source is tungsten, argon, halogen, HID, LED, Xenon or carbide. If your reflector is causing sufficient "side-scatter" to fail an MOT then it really does not matter what bulb you have, does it?

[b1k3rdude]

I am sorry, but that is BS. That fact that it gets repeated a lot does not make it any less BS.
The reflector will focus the light where it is supposed to go, it will align it (if the source is in the correct location). The reflector does not know (or care) how the light was generated, so it makes no difference to the alignment whether the source is tungsten, argon, halogen, HID, LED, Xenon or carbide.

Why then are they illegal? see .gov.uk pdf from 2010. Why does the law stipulate that HID bulbs cannot be installed in [size=1em]conventional Halogen[/size] based headlamps? (like the ones in the fazer). Also to apply some logic, why are all oem installed HID's projector based..?  I'll grant you there is no reason why a reflector based headlamp unit can't be designed for HID use, but have you ever seen any..?

Have you ever fitted a HID kit..? how exactly have you been able to 'adjust' the position of the bulb. Also the incidental light off a HID bulb is that much brighter and its this that is exaggerated by the reflector because its not designed for it.

[VNA]

A 100W lamps will overload the wiring, also the heat will very likely damage the lamp housing.

I fitted Phillips extreme H4's to my Gen1 Fazer thou.  Same wattage, a more focused beam and double the brightness of standard halogens.  I'm happy with the headlamps on the Fazer.

[Phil TK]

I fitted Phillips extreme H4's to my Gen1 Fazer thou.  Same wattage, a more focused beam and double the brightness of standard halogens.  I'm happy with the headlamps on the Fazer.

Weird. About 15 mins ago I ordered a set of those and then read this post. I went for the bluey bulbs since these seem to stand out nicely when filtering, I've noticed. I got two bulbs plus xenon sidelights for £19 on ebay.

[PaulSmith]

...
Why then are they illegal?
...
Have you ever fitted a HID kit..? how exactly have you been able to 'adjust' the position of the bulb. Also the incidental light off a HID bulb is that much brighter and its this that is exaggerated by the reflector because its not designed for it.

Early versions of HID kits and some of the cheaper current versions used bulbs that were a different size from the bulbs they were replacing. The result was a misaligned light beam which failed MOT tests. Most modern kits (including the ones I have fitted to bikes and cars) use bulbs with the same light source placement as the units they are replacing. Therefore they have the same beam pattern. Unless you do something stupid like use 10k bulbs (which are so blue that you can't see where you are going and look about as cool as a used condom on the parcel shelf) you are not going to attract undue attention.
So why is it 'illegal'? The document you posted uses the same reasoning that I have, but also makes it clear that this is their 'opinion', it is up to the courts to decide on a case by case basis if an offence has occured. Used sensibly, HIDs can significantly improve your safety and visibilty without adversly affecting any other road users. Be stupid about it and expect to get nicked. 

[b1k3rdude]

• Most modern kits (including the ones I have fitted to bikes and cars) use bulbs with the same light source placement as the units they are replacing.
  
• But also makes it clear that this is their 'opinion', it is up to the courts to decide on a case by case basis if an offence has occured.
  

• Got some info on the make and model of these kits? as I would be curious to see the construction and implementation etc.
  
• As you inferred, it may be the DFT 'opinion' based on the ruling coming from europe but, I have been told categorically by several MOT stations that in the not to distance future HID kits will be a definite MOT fail.
  

But we are getting off track a little, we have both fitted and fit HID kits. But until the law isn't a grey area and quality HID kits become a reality, I was suggesting that people may want to avoid trying to retro fit HID kits to thier main headlamp. Another way to look at it is, now or in near future an insurance co. could try an argue as you have fitted a HID kit, that you have invalidated your MOT and there for your insurance as per their T &Cs. But this is another whole other legal can of worms etc. But if someone fits HID driving lights I don't believe these are subject to the MOT other than that if forward facing need be of a white light.

And yes all those imbeciles out their with blue/purple HID's are just making a rod for thier own backs.

[bludclot]

what about angel eyes for our fazers? has anyone fitted them and if so, what make and are they any good?


good angel eyes are really good but poor ones are a bit rubbish in my opinion...

[solorider]

[quote author=PaulSmith link=topic=4267.msg36246#msg36246 date=1345809358]I am sorry, but that is BS. That fact that it gets repeated a lot does not make it any less BS.
The reflector will focus the light where it is supposed to go, it will align it (if the source is in the correct location). The reflector does not know (or care) how the light was generated, so it makes no difference to the alignment whether the source is tungsten, argon, halogen, HID, LED, Xenon or carbide.

..?  I'll grant you there is no reason why a reflector based headlamp unit can't be designed for HID use, but have you ever seen any..?

Have you ever fitted a HID kit..? how exactly have you been able to 'adjust' the position of the bulb. Also the incidental light off a HID bulb is that much brighter and its this that is exaggerated by the reflector because its not designed for it.
[/quote]
not all hid bulbs are on a projector type lens,the last model honda civic had hid bulbs with reflector lenses

[cable tie]

I have to agree with paul on this the older type kits was very poor and the light blinded on coming traffic due to the scatter the latest kits have a buld cover built into the bulb unit and prevents the scatter and stops unwanted flashing from on coming vehicles.
Lets be honest the law/mot banned race exhausts (without baffles) but we still fit them !! im all for being seen and the 6k hid kit stands out and usually gets seen before the bike does ..

[b1k3rdude]

not all hid bulbs are on a projector type lens,the last model honda civic had hid bulbs with reflector lenses

Ah cool, what year/model, so I can look up some images/diagrams.

the latest kits have a build cover built into the bulb unit and prevents the scatter and stops unwanted flashing from on coming vehicles.

I am keen to see what these new bulbs physically look like, got some examples of make and model etc.

[PaulSmith]

These H7 bulbs (as an example) wont give you any problems: http://www.hids-direct.co.uk/h7-35w-hid-xenon-bulb-set/
However, these H4 bulbs might (or might not) be problematic: http://www.hids-direct.co.uk/hid-h4-3-hi...-bulb-set/
The problem is with the fact that an H4 bulb has to do low and high beam. I believe that one of the new MOT failures being introduced is that low beam must stay on when high beam is selected (probably will only affect new vechicles since it also affects type approval). However, these bulbs select hi beam by actually physically moving the light source from the low beam position to the high beam position. How that transition is handled by the bulb, and by your reflector, will determine how much (if any) grief you get and cause.

Other options for H4 bulbs include stuff like this: http://www.lightinthebox.com/35W---HID-H...52696.html
where HID is used for low beam and Halogen is used for high beam. At those prices is might be worth trying one before commiting to it.

[b1k3rdude]

• However, H4 bulbs might cause a problem
  
• I believe that one of the new MOT failures being introduced is that low beam must stay on when high beam is selected
  
• other options for H4 bulbs include stuff like this
  

• This whole thread has been about H4 hi/lo......
  
• I seriously doubt that and it won't/can't apply to vehicles where there Hi/Lo beams come on separately from factory like the FZS 1000.
  
• This kit 'could' pass an MOT, but only with a much larger baffle. I know because my very first HID kit was like this and stock baffle isn't anywhere near large enough to provide an effective low beam cut-off. And that's only half the problem, the Hi beam halogen bulb is so poorly placed (its 5mm off-axis) you get fuck all hi beam.
  

The ONLY half way descent solution/conclusion I have arrived at for the telescopic type H4 Hi/Lo is as follows -

• Construct a better 'hood' that surrounds the bulb, in order to close the gap between the inner baffle and the hood itself and have a bigger slot in the side of the hood for closer to stock Hi beam.
  
• Construct a better quality moving assembly with better tolerances as the gap between the housing the moving part on the majority of HID bulbs is far to large which results in the bulb laying at an off-axis angle.
  
• The above assy. dosent travel far enough, every H4 Hi/Low HID bulb I have examined either sit reasonably well for low beam but don't go back far enough for Hi beam or visa versa.
  

I have looked into a non moving H4 Hi/Lo that incorporates two arc envelops inside the one bulb, but:

• When you switch to Hi beam the warm up time could take a few seconds which is unacceptable, but I haven't researched this yet.
  
• The baffle that sits right next to the bulb to cover the low beam arc on most bulbs dosent cover enough.
  
• You would need to install 4 ballasts instead of the usual 2.
  
• And some of theses dual arc bulbs aren't directly in-line, on of the arc envelopes is little off-axis (see this image http://img.alibaba.com/wsphoto/v0/321736...m-Bulb.jpg)
  

The only other options I know of are to either get a pair from driving lights or Hi/Lo projector to enhance existing low beam of the main headlight, or go the extreme route and retro fit a pair of projector Hi/Lo units inside the FZS headlight unit. Someone mentioned about fitting 'Angel eyes' this can be done, but also requires the opening of the FZS headlight unit depending on wither you fit just an angel eye kit or projectors unit with built in Angel Eyes. And lastly LED driving lights, as this has only recently become affordable and the simplest solution as I dont believe they are effected by the MOT. Bikeviz are doing a pair of LED spots for either Hi only or lo only beam - http://www.bikevis.com/motorcycle-cree-l...ight.html, but I haven'y seen any review of these yet or even how good or bad they are. Found a cheaper version that looks the same from HongKong on ebay, could be cheap enough to warrant a punt.

[b1k3rdude]

Just been browsing google/youtube and I cam accross this! and by god its one hell of an improvement. I wonder how much they cost and what diameter of the light unit is as I imagine this could be fitted in a lot of bike with round head lights.

LED Headlamps and Fog Lamps for Harley-Davidson® Motorcycles

[PaulSmith]

...This whole thread has been about H4 hi/lo......

...The only other options I know of are ...

I got the impression that the thread had digressed to talking about an absolute ban on HID upgrades, sorry for any confusion.

One other option to consider if the ones you have already looked at are not acceptable to you, is to use the fact that the Fazer has two reflectors. Consider using one for low beam only and the other for high beam only. Then you no longer have any concerns about light source location, latency or transition times etc.

[budgiemurray]

[quote author=VNA link=topic=4267.msg36401#msg36401 date=1345917518]

I fitted Phillips extreme H4's to my Gen1 Fazer thou.  Same wattage, a more focused beam and double the brightness of standard halogens.  I'm happy with the headlamps on the Fazer.

Had the Exreme H4's on my VFR$ too, a huge noticable difference over the standard bulbs.. Ill be buying them again for the fazer I think

Budgie[/quote]

[b1k3rdude]

Consider using one for low beam only and the other for high beam only. Then you no longer have any concerns about light source location, latency or transition times etc.

I did think about doing this with my very first foxeye fazer, but the issue we will have is that the low beam dosent stay on when you change to hi beam. Either a some rewiring would have to be done or a custom harness (w/relays) would have to be built. Also the warm up time on HID takes far too long, which would be an issue when changing from Low to Hi on a dark road, also using the Hi beam flash button is non starter.