(29-06-12, 08:36 AM)Andy FZS link Wrote: After a sabbatical from motorcycling for a "FEW" years I returned earlier this year. Although everything has improved from 80's bikes I used to ride, I'm steadily growing in confidence with practice. I've no intention (or every did come to think about it!) of of being the quickest rider but do enjoy getting out at moderate speeds (keeping with traffic or maybe a little quicker) and I'm considering some type of course but am unsure if I should improve my basics to avoid embarrassing myself or go for it now when it may be of more use?
Andy
Andy, thats exactly how I feel! I have had my Fazer for 12 months now & whilst I use it for occassional commuting or run home (240 miles each way!) I feel I could definately benefit from further training but dont want to find a group and then do something stupid!
It ain't what you ride, it's who you ride with!!!
'to pass yer IAM and Rospa....you cant exceed any speed limits '
I beg to differ as well....
0 (29-06-12, 08:19 AM)pitternator link Wrote: I really doubt it will be a credible defence if you do get caught speeding ....Rospa are even more strict than IAM.If anything , my police instructors said its even worse to get caught speeding after doing an IAM, as you " should know better"...
Well, yes, and because it means your Observation isn't up to scratch since you should have spotted the camera/ van/ copper in time to do something about it!
Quote:yes on a well thought out overtake, use the acceleration of the machine...but that doesnt mean big speed multi car overtakes are the norm.
No, but I never said they were. That was, of course, also why the Examiner asked me to explain my reasoning about going for the overtake and my thought processes whilst doing so. So when I detailed the observations I'd made prior to it for potential hazards such as side-turnings, oncoming traffic etc and how I was watching the second car in the group of three to check that he wasn't moving up/ outwards looking for his own overtake (possibly without checking his mirrors) and how I was ready to back out if necessary he accepted that I was doing it safely and had no problems passing me.
(29-06-12, 08:36 AM)Andy FZS link Wrote: I'm considering some type of course but am unsure if I should improve my basics to avoid embarrassing myself or go for it now when it may be of more use?
I think it will improve your basics by picking up any bad habits you might have got into and getting rid of them before they get reinforced :thumbup
(29-06-12, 08:54 AM)Robbie8666 link Wrote: I feel I could definately benefit from further training but dont want to find a group and then do something stupid!
Nobody is going to take the mick in a nasty way, the whole point of Advanced Training is to improve your skills and there won't be anyone in the group who hasn't been where you are or not made a mistake in their life.
Relax and enjoy it. Sure, you'll cock-up at some point, everyone does, but don't let it get to you, treat it as a learning experience and you'll not make the same mistake again.
i thort i was a great rider. i cud do 100mph on the straights or motorway. then i joined a advanced riding club. £55 a year. once a week i went out with my observor. once a month a safty chat and a ride with another observor. then there was the group rides. i have learned loads of things. pass my rospa and neva looked back. when i joined i thort oh this bloke is 20 years older than me. this will be slow and boring. how wrong was i. he lost me on the first bend.
That was like the blokes I went out with on the "private" runs. (non observed)
Took a while but eventually I got the skills, mostly observation and gearbox/throttle control.
Goldfazer
1. as a cyclist you have often boasted you dont have to stick to any speed limits, as no doubt you are a special sort of driver.
2. yes in 1999, if you strayed over the limit more than 3 times on your test ( even minor overages eg + 5 mph) you automatically failed. Rospa didnt allow any mistakes....obviously times have changed.I think standards were higher back then. Some might think that doesnt count , but keeping to limits is a skill in itself....
My issue is this...a court or traffic copper wont take the view that as a IAM driver you have any more right than anyone else if caught speeding. Graham, you seem to smugly assume you have the ability to spot / detect speeed traps/ cameras...you should bottle it , it will be a wonder product.
The issue of sticking to a speed limit shows you have restraint , something very important for inexperienced riders to master if they want to avoid riding into situations which can rapidly exceed their abilities. It doesnt actually mean going slow.Speed is not everything , safe use of speed is .We all have bikes which are capable of much higher speeds than we will normally need in most road situations...hence mastery over the machine ibso facto means restraining speed.
The common thread amongst inexperienced riders is they just want to ride faster ....I think you should try to ride safer first . Speed comes with experience and knowledge, its not the first thing you should want to learn.I first learnt to ride in 1975, the roads were scary even back then with much lower powered cars and bikes, and much less traffic/ driving distractions.The UK is a potentially very dangerous place to ride...get safe first is the IAM message.
I did the BikeSafe course a couple of years ago in Birmingham. FANTASTIC!!!!!
A bit scary the first day have a copper behind you all the time, but they are motorcyclists and they want you to stay alive.
On the subject of speed, the copper I followed 'nicked a bit on clear A roads. Apparently he took the lead because we were not making sufficient progress - 60 on our clocks was not 60 on his calibrated clock - seems like it was nearer 80 to keep up!
'1. as a cyclist you have often boasted you dont have to stick to any speed limits, as no doubt you are a special sort of driver.'
er, no. Firstly I'd have a job breaking a speed limit these days (except downhill), secondly, pushbikes aren't subject to speedlimits BY LAW. But I can't see what that's got to do with anything anyway...
And it's a fact, my car IAM (1993) - stuck behind a slow moving vehicle, saw an overtake coming up, told the examiner there was going to be a brief chance and I'd make the most of it (back in the days of a commentary) - can't remember what I reached, nothing drastic but more than the 60(?) limit. He was quite happy and later told me I'd done the right thing. When I did the bike test (examiner Robbie Dowling, Avon & Somerset Police bike instructor and examiner, been on TV  ) had a similar thing, he mentioned it in the debrief, I just mentioned TED and he was happy.
So wind yer neck in :moon
You can get done for "Furious Cycling"
It's nearly worth doing just to get that charge against your name!
Curious Fycling is better :lol
(30-06-12, 06:41 AM)pitternator link Wrote: My issue is this...a court or traffic copper wont take the view that as a IAM driver you have any more right than anyone else if caught speeding. Graham, you seem to smugly assume you have the ability to spot / detect speeed traps/ cameras...you should bottle it , it will be a wonder product.
Pitternator, where the *foc* did I say that? Oh, that's right, I didn't. Why don't you go back and read what I actually *wrote* rather than what you smugly seem to assume I wrote?
Quote:The issue of sticking to a speed limit shows you have restraint , something very important for inexperienced riders to master if they want to avoid riding into situations which can rapidly exceed their abilities.
And I don't disagree with that in the slightest... *when* it is appropriate! Sure, sticking to (or below) 30 and 40 limits is sensible. Sure, inexperienced riders (and even, or especially experienced one) should exercise due restraint, again *WHEN* it is appropriate.
Yes, fine, get safe first, I don't disagree with that either, but once you've got that message and increased your experience, then you'll find that what you can do *safely* increases.
Gold
I recall a cycling thread where you did indeed brag about speeding on a bicycle!..above the law and all that .
I am perplexed that maybe on my IAM training / test / training afterwards, my group is the only one that seems to have kept to speed limits....
Its not me that needs to wind my neck in...
graham
Why is it you mention that on your ride outs , you take big overtakes and mention speeding , then take umbrage when I point out such ??..you make a big point about using a lot of speed to make the overtakes...another opinion is that maybe such an overtake was not appropriate/necessary if you needed such speed to make it .Yes , use the power of the machine, but its not a carte blanche. I would preach more a message about using the acceleration difference and natural slow down points in the road to make an overtake, rather than just big speed.It sends a safer message.If an inexperienced rider is not willing to restrain his speed behind slower traffic then it will lead to dodgy overtakes.Advanced riding is not just about going fast ...
I believe that advanced cycling is about observation, positioning, safety and cornering.
(01-07-12, 08:50 AM)JZS 600 link Wrote: I believe that advanced cycling is about observation, positioning, safety and cornering
Or in this case, motorcycling!
(01-07-12, 07:27 AM)pitternator link Wrote: Why is it you mention that on your ride outs , you take big overtakes and mention speeding , then take umbrage when I point out such ??
Because you then go on to say stupid things like...
Quote:[...]but its not a carte blanche.
... implying that *I* have said this, when I have *NOT*, so stop trying to put words into my mouth.
It's about the ability to control the position and speed of your bike realtive to everything else on the road.
Enuff!
my $0.02 worth.
the IAM group i went out with were the most sanctimonious bunch of pricks i ever had the mispleasure to meet.
observed rides were cancelled due to poor weather!! i used to ride 365 days a year, come rain, snow, hell or high water.
often i'd be setting out at 4am with frozen roads, so to have a ride cancelled because it's a bit wet didn't lay to well with me.
for some reason they met every criteria of the self righteous bearded bmw rider brigade who always knew 'better' than you and were mantra-like in their weekly roadcraft recitals. apparently my 30 years of accident free riding was more by luck than judgement as i had serious road placement issues (i wouldn't ride in the gutter approaching a right hander)
i sincerely hope that other groups are better than this as we can all learn something to make our riding better, perhaps a better/co-ordinated system of teaching, rather than being proud of the fact that you didn't have to stop the wheels moving at any traffic lights :rolleyes
The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money!
Yeah, there's all sorts in these clubs, we had one who could have been done for impersonating a ploice officer, what a twat!
Anyhoo, the guys I went out on runs with outside the IAM umbrella were a right bunch of lads that liked a thrap and a beer so not everyone in the IAM is so dour.
Having said which, I got a right bollocking from a bloke on a run once because he couldn't keep up on his Fireblade! I laughed my head off that day...
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