General Election 8th June

[esetest]

Dumb , dumber or dumbest , where to put my X .

[slappy]

Dumb , dumber or dumbest , where to put my X .

Greedy self serving wanker, greedier self serving wanker, greediest self serving wanker is more like it.

[Dudeofrude]

[quote author=esetest link=topic=22397.msg261353#msg261353 date=1495732369]
Dumb , dumber or dumbest , where to put my X .

Greedy self serving wanker, greedier self serving wanker, greediest self serving wanker is more like it.
[/quote]

But surely this is the problem?  We all know none of them are fit for the job yet we have no choice but to pick one? Why haven't we all stood up and said fuck off?  A democracy  is no good if all you get to decide is which pile of shit your gonna land in.

[slappy]

[quote author=slappy link=topic=22397.msg261356#msg261356 date=1495733185]
[quote author=esetest link=topic=22397.msg261353#msg261353 date=1495732369]
Dumb , dumber or dumbest , where to put my X .

Greedy self serving wanker, greedier self serving wanker, greediest self serving wanker is more like it.
[/quote]

But surely this is the problem?  We all know none of them are fit for the job yet we have no choice but to pick one? Why haven't we all stood up and said fuck off?  A democracy  is no good if all you get to decide is which pile of shit your gonna land in.
[/quote]


This is something that I have always thought about---  What would happen if nobody voted ?  And I mean nobody, not one candidate in any constituency recieves one vote, the whole foccing country says sod the lot of them.

[Dave48]

I am reminded of some song lyrics from the sixties:- The Who singing "Wont Get Fooled Again" which includes the words "Meet the new boss-same as the old boss". Also Bob Dylans words "Dont Trust Leaders"...etc etc.
I am getting old & incredibly disillusioned and there doesnt seem to be anything about to change for the better. I do like the idea of no one voting.
Saw a big yellow sign in someones garden this morning asking me to vote liberal"-is there a candidate?-if so i havent seen or heard anything from a member of their party. The traditional main parties Con Lab & Lib dont have any relevance. I will use my vote as a protest against May & her ilk but this doesnt seem a positive thing to do.


I would say I will be glad when its all over bar the shouting but its never over is it and neither is the shouting- a bunch of overpaid,underworked wastrels to a man/woman with no idea of the daily reality for many of the electorate.
The UKIP guy on radio 4 this morning was trying to make political capital out of the Manchester outrage, but i admit he had a point re the cutbacks in policing,prison officers leaving, and shortcomings in our border controls.
Thinking about history-there have been times in the past when the populace have said "Enoughs enough"-I would like to see the whole lot of them down the local jobcentre & some competent people running the country (dream on!)

[lew600fazer]

So do these individuals have any influence on what they tell the government to DO!!!!
Everyone agrees that newspapers play a crucial role in British democracy, even if they disagree what that role is.
This week the Press Gazette published the results of the National Readership Survey. I have used these results – for both print and online – to draw up tables with readerships and information about owners and political orientation. Almost 78 per cent of our press is owned by a handful of mostly foreign-based billionaires.
Our newspapers like to paint their own role as heroic – they are the brave defenders of democracy who hold our elected representatives to account. Watergate is the archetype of this kind of journalism and it does occur now and again in the UK but it is rare.
Too often, far from protecting our democracy, our papers subvert it. In his Inquiry, Lord Leveson quoted some lines from Tom Stoppard’s Night and Day. Milne: “No matter how imperfect things are, if you’ve got a free press everything is correctable, and without it everything is concealable.” Ruth: “I’m with you on the free press. It’s the newspapers I can’t stand.”
In a free press, the nature of the newspapers matter very much.
The nature of a paper is set by its owner. Press barons wield far more power and influence than all but a very few MPs and have, unsurprisingly, used it to further their own interests.
Since 2010, the barons have pushed the highly contentious argument that there is no alternative to austerity (for other people, not for them or those close to them), and have largely ignored the stories which historians will doubtless note – the widening social divisions and the swelling numbers at food banks, the 21st century’s soup kitchens.
Newspapers exercise power and influence in a number of ways. It is not just that they have a megaphone which lets them dominate the public debate. They also have privileged access to politicians. And one of their most powerful forms of influence is the ability to effectively set the political agenda for the other media and more widely, in parliament, the workplace, the kitchen and the pub.
In the terms of political theory, the press barons impose the elite’s cultural hegemony. As Martin Kettle has argued, the answer to the old 1970’s question – ‘Who governs Britain?’ – is now, in important respects, the press barons. The most recent example of their power – and arrogance – is how they have contemptuously ignored the Leveson Inquiry findings and the subsequent decision of the elected House of Commons.
Newspapers put great store by the concept of editorial independence. Sometimes, it is a reality. The Lebedevs, for example, own papers – the Independent and the Evening Standard – which take markedly different political stances.
Too often, however, editorial independence is a sham. Proprietors choose editors who they know share their views. Editors know well what is expected of them without the need for a proprietor to actively interfere.
Rupert Murdoch’s candour at the Leveson Inquiry was revealing. He said that if someone wanted to know his opinion on a subject they should just read the leader in the Sun.
UK press weekly print and on-line readership (for papers over 1 million) in March 2013 [table][tr][td]
Newspaper(s)[/td][td]
Combined print and online readership
(In brackets print alone)[/td][td]
Effective owner/s

[/td][td]
Information about effective owner/s[/td][td]
Political orientation of newspaper/s[/td][td]
% of  combined print and online (Print alone)[/td][/tr][tr][td]
The Sun/The Sun on Sunday[/td][td]
13,674,000
(12,765,000)[/td][td]
Rupert Murdoch[/td][td]
Billionaire. Lives in US.
Alleged tax avoider.[/td][td]
Supported Tories in 2010[/td][td]
18.6%
(20.7%)[/td][/tr][tr][td]
The Mail/ Mail on Sunday[/td][td]
12,188,000
(9,534,000)[/td][td]
Lord Rothermere[/td][td]
Billionaire. Lives in France.
Non-domiciled for UK tax
[/td][td]
Supported Tories in 2010[/td][td]
16.5%
(15.5%)[/td][/tr][tr][td]
Metro[/td][td]
7,986,000
(7,597,000)[/td][td]
Lord Rothermere[/td][td]
Billionaire. Lives in France.
Non-domiciled for UK tax
[/td][td]
Supported Tories in 2010[/td][td]
10.8%
(12.3%)[/td][/tr][tr][td]
Mirror/Sunday Mirror/ People[/td][td]
7,874,000
(7,063,000)[/td][td]
Trinity Mirror plc

[/td][td]
Public Limited Company[/td][td]
Supported Labour in 2010[/td][td]
10.7%
(11.4%)[/td][/tr][tr][td]
The Guardian/The Observer[/td][td]
5,342,000
(2,898,000)[/td][td]
Scott Trust Ltd[/td][td]
A company with purpose “to secure  Guardian’s independence”[/td][td]
Supported Lib Dems in 2010[/td][td]
7.3%
(4.7%)[/td][/tr][tr][td]
Telegraph/ Sunday Telegraph[/td][td]
4,998,000
(3,128,000)[/td][td]
David and Frederick Barclay[/td][td]
Billionaires. Live on private island near Sark.
Alleged tax avoiders.[/td][td]
Supported Tories in 2010[/td][td]
6.8%
(5.1%)[/td][/tr][tr][td]
The Times/ Sunday Times[/td][td]
4,608,000
(4,418,000)[/td][td]
Rupert Murdoch[/td][td]
Billionaire. Lives in US.
Alleged tax avoider.[/td][td]
Supported Tories in 2010[/td][td]
6.3%
(7.2%)[/td][/tr][tr][td]
The Independent/ i/Independent on Sunday[/td][td]
4,002,000
(2,770,000)[/td][td]
Alexander (father)and Evgeny (son) Lebedev[/td][td]
Alexander is a billionaire, ex-KGB and lives in Russia. Evgeny lives in the UK[/td][td]
Supported anti-Tory tactical voting in 2010[/td][td]
5.4%
(4.5%)[/td][/tr][tr][td]
London Evening Standard[/td][td]
3,850,000
(3,443,000)[/td][td]
Alexander and Evgeny Lebedev[/td][td]
Alexander is billionaire, ex-KGB and lives in Russia. Evgeny lives in UK[/td][td]
Supported Tories in 2010[/td][td]
5.2%
(5.6%)[/td][/tr][tr][td]
Daily Express/Sunday Express[/td][td]
3,118,000
(2,756,000)[/td][td]
Richard Desmond[/td][td]
Billionaire pornographer.
Alleged tax avoider.[/td][td]
Supported Tories in 2010[/td][td]
4.2%
(4.5%)[/td][/tr][tr][td]
Daily Star/Daily Star Sunday[/td][td]
2,972,000
(2,873,000)[/td][td]
Richard Desmond[/td][td]
Billionaire pornographer.
Alleged tax avoider.[/td][td]
Supported Tories in 2010


[/td][td]
4.0%
(4.7%)[/td][/tr][tr][td]
Daily Record/ Sunday Mail[/td][td]
1,719,000
(1,527,000)[/td][td]
Trinity Mirror plc[/td][td]
Public limited company[/td][td]
Supported Labour in 2010[/td][td]
2.3%
(2.5%)[/td][/tr][tr][td]
Financial Times[/td][td]
1,339,000
  (928,000)[/td][td]
Pearson plc[/td][td]
Public limited company[/td][td]

Supported Tories in 2010[/td][td]
1.8%
(1.5%)[/td][/tr][tr][td]
TOTALS[/td][td]
73,670,000
(61,700,000)[/td][/tr][/table]
Readership of UK press (for papers over 1 million) in March 2013 by effective owners[table][tr][td]
Effective owner(s)[/td][td]
%  of combined print and online (print alone)[/td][/tr][tr][td]
Lord Rothermere[/td][td]
27.3      (27.8)[/td][/tr][tr][td]
Rupert Murdoch[/td][td]
24.9      (27.9)[/td][/tr][tr][td]
Trinity Mirror plc[/td][td]
13.0      (13.9)[/td][/tr][tr][td]
Alexander and Evgeny Lebedev[/td][td]
10.6      (10.1)[/td][/tr][tr][td]
Richard Desmond[/td][td]
  8.2        (9.2)[/td][/tr][tr][td]
Scott Trust[/td][td]
  7.3      (4.7)[/td][/tr][tr][td]
David and Frederick Barclay[/td][td]
  6.8      (5.1)[/td][/tr][tr][td]
Pearson plc[/td][td]
  1.8      (1.5)[/td][/tr][/table]Over a quarter (27.3 per cent) of the press is owned by Lord Rothermere and 24.9 per cent by Rupert Murdoch  – between them these two men have over 50 per cent of the printed press.
Over three quarters (77.8 per cent) of the press is owned by a handful of billionaires. There are only 88 billionaires among the 63 million people in the UK and most of the barons do not even live in the UK.
I am no fan of Michael Gove’s fact-based curriculum, but it is true that knowing certain facts is key to understanding. All students of British politics need to know who owns our press.

[dickturpin]

Does he or she have a part time job??simple question. and as I said my lad was happy to wear Tescos own clothing brands and save a few quid. He also only had hand me done mobile phones not state of the art. Sorry but there is no way any student should be racking up £50k in debt going through Uni.
When my lad was thinking about getting married  he mentioned how Liz was talking about how they would have to pull together to help clear her student debts £28k , my advice was to tell her they are her debts not theirs , thankfully he took that on board and went their separate ways.
Call me what you want but todays youth want everything on a plate , I see it with my Grand daughter and nieces & nephews children. get things far to easy in life and want mum & dad to pay for it.

Don't disagree Lew
Yes the person I know had a part time job but the point of my post isn't a debate about the person I know compared to your son, its the fact that very many students are coming out with very large debts and politicians are now suggesting that fees can be stopped.
It is inevitable that three or four years living in London with no help with accommodation costs plus £9k yearly tuition fees plus living costs travel etc that debts will accrue. I don't have a problem with that. What bugs me is that politicians can offer to end it at a stroke!
How can that be correct for the few years of students that have accepted the debt?
Imagine if you or I had paid heavily for our education only to be told that subsequent years would be free but your debt would remain.
Not that I'm expecting any of Jeremy's bribes to come to fruition! 

[nick crisp]

Jesus, what're Labour gonna do if they win, make Monopoly money legal currency?!

[Dudeofrude]

Jesus, what're Labour gonna do if they win, make Monopoly money legal currency?!

They wouldn't need too. Our so called 'debt' isn't really money. It's just numbers on a screen. We don't even have any proof that we are in debt. We are just told we are and that we have to suffer to pay it back even though it wasn't our choice to get into debt I'm the first place.
The arse holes that got us here are no worse off than they were before the crash, if anything they are probably richer.
Have you ever stopped to think who we are supposed to actually owe all this money too? And what would happen if we just told them to ram it? Would we get bailiffs at the borders? Would they repossess Buckingham palace?
As for the deficit, do we actually know why it's sucks a wide gap?  Isn't it entirely possible that the government gets more than enough tax and other events to balance the books but they are too busy paying themselves extortionate amounts of money so they pass the buck down to us. Why take a 20000 pay cut each this month when they can just shut down a school/medical centre/library.

[nick crisp]

Oh I don't disagree with the rhetoric. Trouble is, politicians prove time after time that rhetoric's all it is, no matter what flavour they are.


Good grief, all this politics! Must go and lie down for a bit!  :lol

[fazersharp]

Almost everything corbin does makes him look like a blundering fool.
Just seen him on tv saying everyone loves football just like I do and then trys to kick a ball - stands on it and almost falls over, like he has never kicked a ball in his life, the man is an unelectable joke.
Cue VNA to come on pointing out that he HAS been elected   

[noggythenog]

Good to be back....since I haven't ridden my  :faz yet i'll have to start here.

Seems to be allot of decision making about who to vote for is based on Wars and Terrorism.........ok whilst they are both bad I believe that they will be present no matter who is in power.

Seems to me to make more sense to vote on the basis of domestic things that affect us each and every day.

I used to be one of those guys who just didn't vote because there was no point and I didn't like any of the choices.....but apparently this is a bad thing to do.......so this year I voted......but really both labour and Conservatives are shite.......I basically voted for the one that I disliked the least.......suppose some choice is better than none.

Also all this bashing of the party leaders is a bit naïve.....they represent a party.....who gives a foc what they personally stand for so long as the party generally has what you need...they are puppets....to personalise something so big seems a bit weird.

Tell you what affect me the most each day....not irish terrorism or the war in Syria......nope......what affects me every day is my Job..........and if you are a normal working person then it is crazy to vote Tory....I think 5 year olds even know that. We are supposed to feel guilty under Tory about even wanting a decent job with decent hours and good conditions.

My daughters future also plays heavily on my mind.....since she wasn't born with a silver spoon in her mouth then she also wont get any favours from me voting Tory.

That's how simple it is to me.

[lew600fazer]

Well just watched the Sky news May v Corbyn , live audience and then they both hadto face the ARSEHOLE Paxman
Labour guy gets my vote , time May joined the ranks of failed PM's move over Cameron thanks for keeping the seat warm.

[VNA]

  I’ve never in my life voted Tory and I never will.
And, of course, we now know that it was Theresa May that resided over an open door policy for Libyan UK residents with known terrorists links to travel between Libya and the UK in 2011. 
Why on earth would anybody want this lunatic as their Prime Minister.

[Dave48]

  I’ve never in my life voted Tory and I never will.
And, of course, we now know that it was Theresa May that resided over an open door policy for Libyan UK residents with known terrorists links to travel between Libya and the UK in 2011. 
Why on earth would anybody want this lunatic as their Prime Minister.

Likewise will NEVER EVER vote Tory,and theres no shortage of lunatics out there :eek

[YamFazFan]

Almost everything corbin does makes him look like a blundering fool.
Just seen him on tv saying everyone loves football just like I do and then trys to kick a ball - stands on it and almost falls over, like he has never kicked a ball in his life

:lol It's so funny when they try to pull off stunts like that and fail :lol

[VNA]

Can't say I'm following this too closely. 

  What is clear is that there is a real thirst today for the kind of reasonable policies being put forward by Corbyn’s team.
What absolutely infuriates me is the Labour MP’s who deny the will of the membership of their party and try to appease the right-wing press in this country.
Labour will probably still lose this election (hey maybe not, and let’s hope not), and we will need to be clear when that (if) happens why it has happened.  It will be the second general election in a row that the Blairite bastards in the Labour party have denied their members and the electorate a proper Labour government, not to mention the bloody BREXIT farce.
On the other hand, if things progress as they are, well things could get interesting.  A minority Tory government being voted down by issue by issue by Labour/Liberal/SNP cooperation.  Or a Labour/SNP or Labour/Liberal government.
Ooooooo.

[steve 10562cc]

I remember the 1970s and the last of the Corbyn type labour politicians in power, mortgage rate around 11/12%, no coal, power cuts, 3 day working week so short wages, rubbish piling up in the streets, and the country was run by militant union leaders not the government.They tried the same policies then and they didn't work borrowed billions just to keep our country afloat. Don't fall for the same s**t they peddled then else your kids and grand kids will pay for it like I and my kids did. 

[VNA]

 

I remember the 1970s and the last of the Corbyn type labour politicians in power, mortgage rate around 11/12%

I remember the early 1990’s when under the Tories the base rate (never mind the mortgage rate) hit 15%

no coal

By the end of the 1990’s we were still burning massive amounts of coal but it was all imported.  Our workers were thrown on the scrap heap and we then ran our country on expensive imported coal.

power cuts

The Tories privatised our electricity industry.  We now as a nation it seems are incapable of building a power station.  We are seriously short of base load.  Power cuts?  They ain’t far away.

and the country was run by militant union leaders not the government

You know the Tories destroyed our industries.  Lock stock and barrel.  They took a sledge hammer to them and got the working man on his knees.  Many ordinary people today live in a world of zero hour contacts, tax credits (cos the fucking stinking rich companies that pay no tax get off without paying a living wage) and food banks.  My bleedin taxes go to people in work.  I subsidise the rich, cos the rich who don’t pay tax don’t pay a living wage.


As for the unions.  Well Nissan’s best plant in Europe, if not the world is Sunderland.  So what has changed?  Management attitude – that’s what has changed.  It’s pretty much the same workforce, it’s still unionised, but there are now bosses that respect and treat their workers with respect.  There is no such thing as poor industrial relations – only bad management.

Don't fall for the same s**t they peddled then else your kids and grand kids will pay for it like I and my kids did.

So no Steve, I won’t be buying your Tory lies.


I’ve never voted Tory, and never ever will vote for the fucking scum bag Tories.

[mtread]

I remember the 1970s and the last of the Corbyn type labour politicians in power, mortgage rate around 11/12%, no coal, power cuts, 3 day working week so short wages, rubbish piling up in the streets, and the country was run by militant union leaders not the government.They tried the same policies then and they didn't work borrowed billions just to keep our country afloat. Don't fall for the same s**t they peddled then else your kids and grand kids will pay for it like I and my kids did.

I  remember the 1990s when a certain May type tory politician in power, mortgage rate hit 15%, we joined then had to quickly leave the Euro (then the ERM). The country was run by a mad woman under a personality cult whose ideology was to provoke the unions and bring them to submission. They also sold all of the council houses, so nobody now has anywhere to live. Don't fall for the same austerity s**t this one is peddling otherwise they'll be no NHS, no public services and we'll all be on zero hours contracts. Meanwhile the rich will just get richer.