Petrol prices

[lew600fazer]

It is the governments job to take every penny it can from it's citizens. How else can they all swill from the trough, award themselves a big pay rise while they tell the rest of us we must accept below inflation pay rises.

I will make a forecast whoever wins the next general election will use the low cost of crude oil to hike the duty on fuel, no matter what any party says in their manifesto. Also bet they will not change there duty free bar in the houses of parliment.

[mtread]

Fuel Duty, plus the VAT on the Fuel Duty element comes to 69.5p per litre. With Petrol at (say) 110p per litre that leaves 40.5p difference. But that also includes a 20% VAT element, so the fuel company's take is 33.75p. That of course includes production, distribution etc.
With the price of crude now down to $55 a barrell (159 litres), that's 22.6p per litre. So margins are tight.
However, two things to think of:
With the tax on diesel being the same as petrol, why are they charging an extra 10p per litre - an extra 100% profit on the difference between the crude price and the fuel company's take? Diesel is either the same price or much cheaper in Europe.
Why do we get aviation fuel surcharges on flights when the oil price goes up, but not refunds when it comes down ?

[lew600fazer]

Here on the costa blanca I am paying €1.07 a ltr for deisel for the car and €1.14 for 95 ron unleaded for the bike that was a couple of days ago.

[Exupnut]

Fudnut

[Millietant]

Fuel Duty, plus the VAT on the Fuel Duty element comes to 69.5p per litre. With Petrol at (say) 110p per litre that leaves 40.5p difference. But that also includes a 20% VAT element, so the fuel company's take is 33.75p. That of course includes production, distribution etc.
With the price of crude now down to $55 a barrell (159 litres), that's 22.6p per litre. So margins are tight.
However, two things to think of:
With the tax on diesel being the same as petrol, why are they charging an extra 10p per litre - an extra 100% profit on the difference between the crude price and the fuel company's take? Diesel is either the same price or much cheaper in Europe.
Why do we get aviation fuel surcharges on flights when the oil price goes up, but not refunds when it comes down ?

If the companies take is 34 ppl and the fuel is costing 23 ppl, that means they're taking a 50% margin (11p margin on a 23p cost) on petrol and almost a 100% (21p on 23p cost) margin on diesel. Those don't look like tight margins to me - especially considering the HUGE volumes sold every day.

[mtread]

Well to be fair to them ....... they do have to turn crude oil into petrol. That presumably costs something. Then they have to transport it in big ships and petrol tankers.
Take your point about massive volumes though, and doesn't excuse the extra Diesel mark-up.

[ChristoT]

Millietant - I'm happier to excuse the fuel companies who ship us the fuel, and have built (and have to maintain!) the infrastructure than give 63% of what I, poor Joe Schmuck, end up paying at the pump.

Which means that of the 110p/L we pay, the fuel firm only gets 37% of that, when they've done all the work to get it to us, and the government has done foc all!

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, the anger is misplaced. By your calculations, the fuel companies are making 11p on each litre of petrol. That 11p goes towards:
- The shipping of the crude to the refinery
- The refining of the crude into petrol
- The shipping of the petrol to national distribution centres
- The distribution to local fuel stations
- Maintenance, or hire costs, on all equipment: tankers, refineries, distribution centres, lorries, pumps etc etc etc.

The government does none of the above. And cooly pockets 6.3 times  the profit the fuel company gets. Can you imagine trying to run a small business like that? You'd be bankrupt in a matter of hours!!

What this country needs is a revolution.  :grumble :2guns

EDIT: MTread - I agree completely (started my response before I saw yours). But that's another lie we were sold - we were all told 10 (or even fewer!!) years ago to buy diesels as they were less polluting, more efficient, the fuel was cheaper, so would save us money, blah de blah. Today, we're being told that diesel is carcinogenic, the fuel's more expensive, and we're all stuck with cars that are getting clobbered with these so-called "eco-taxes". We are systematically being sold up the river by these grubby politicians!!!

[mtread]

In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes.

Benjamin Franklin 1789
Christo

We are systematically being sold up the river by these grubby politicians!!!

Or the Scientists ?

[ChristoT]

In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes.

Benjamin Franklin 1789

Quite.

Who wants to join me in a revolution against the grubby breed of rat we call Politicians that currently infest Westminster (and everywhere else, TBH)?

Bring back the gallows!!!

[mtread]

Off you go Christo. We're right behind you ...... :rolleyes

[ChristoT]

Christo

We are systematically being sold up the river by these grubby politicians!!!

Or the Scientists ?

Mainly the politicians. Scientists have nothing to do with the exorbitant tax on fuel.

Who else remembers that VAT was meant to be a temporary, short-term measure? And who else remembers that the Dartford Crossing would be free after it had paid for itself (as it did - 12 foccin' years ago)?

Off you go Christo. We're right behind you ...... :rolleyes

Lemme guess - several miles behind me?  :rolleyes

Guy Fawkes — The only man ever to enter Parliament with honest intentions

[mtread]

Guy Fawkes — The only man ever to enter Parliament with honest intentions

and look what happened to him !
Anyway, we need to pay our taxes. They help to maintain the roads ........

[ChristoT]

Guy Fawkes — The only man ever to enter Parliament with honest intentions

and look what happened to him !
Anyway, we need to pay our taxes. They help to maintain the roads ........

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

I'll stop grousing about road tax and fuel duty when we actually see it doing motorists any good.

[mtread]

Who else remembers that VAT was meant to be a temporary, short-term measure?

Um ... I don't think so. In 1973 VAT replaced Purchase Tax which had been with us since 1940. All EU states have to have a Value Added Tax. It's a condition of being in the EU. Also the tax rates have to be 'harmonised' ie between certain amounts. Ours at 20% is actually lower than many
http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/res...tes_en.pdf
Now Fuel Duty is of course an Excise Duty, and those go back centuries ! But there are always ways round them if you don't like paying ....
http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_smuggler.htm

[BBROWN1664]

Its not quite that straight forward. One barrel of oil is about 35 gallons. From that, about 120 litres or diesel and petrol is refined. The rest becomes other things like aviation fuel, other oils etc so for a $50 barrel, the  cost of the bit that gets turned into road fuel is about $37.50 making the raw materal cost about $0.31 / litre or £0.20 in real money.

Add in fuel duty at about 60p/l and the cost before refining, distribution and profit is £0.80/litre. Add VAT, and the 1p/litre the retailer gets (yes that is why they hate the gits that drive off without paying) and the price becomes £0.96/litre

Add in the refining and distribution costs and I doubt we will see petrol or diesel ever fall below £1 per litre again unless HMRC drastically reduce their duty rates.

[ChristoT]

Its not quite that straight forward. One barrel of oil is about 35 gallons. From that, about 120 litres or diesel and petrol is refined. The rest becomes other things like aviation fuel, other oils etc so for a $50 barrel, the  cost of the bit that gets turned into road fuel is about $37.50 making the raw materal cost about $0.31 / litre or £0.20 in real money.

Add in fuel duty at about 60p/l and the cost before refining, distribution and profit is £0.80/litre. Add VAT, and the 1p/litre the retailer gets (yes that is why they hate the gits that drive off without paying) and the price becomes £0.96/litre

Add in the refining and distribution costs and I doubt we will see petrol or diesel ever fall below £1 per litre again unless HMRC drastically reduce their duty rates.

BBrown: my point exactamente.

[BBROWN1664]

Looking at it another way.

If oil was to go to $150 a barrel, it would only add £0.48/litre to the cost. Refining and transport costs would remain constant as nobody gets payrises :pokefun so the oil industry was and is making a fair profit still as fuel was hitting £1.50/litre when oil was well under $100 a barrel.

[locksmith]

transport costs would remain constant

But they cant because fuel costs would rise  :b

[BBROWN1664]

:pokefun

No, they pay Venezuelan rates for their own fuel :pokefun

[mtread]

BBrown - You're right of course, there's a baseline price. Even if a barrel of crude comes out of the ground for nothing, the cost of refining, transporting and tax will keep the retail price at around the £1 mark.
The only issue I would take is that it's not HMRC that sets the duty rate, it's the government in the shape of the Chancellor of the Exchequer.