The front sprocket nut and washer saga

[Dead Eye]

Couldn't agree more with richfzs on this - good quality tools pay for themselves. My heavy duty tools I buy from decent manufacturers and daily stuff comes from at least average manufacturers - cheap stuff I go nowhere near! Most of my kit is Torq atm but I have several Draper items as well. So far Torq seems to have been a good balance between quality and price.

Also lewis, a spanner is more likely to slip on the nut than a decent socket which may cause you pain both physically and mentally if it damages the head on the sprocket nut. Its also unlikely to fit properly as the whole assembly is set back. The correct socket is probably £5-£7 from Halfrauds or cheaper on eBay and a decent Draper 1/2" Torque Wrench can be found for around £20-£30 if you shop a bit.

[darrsi]

Hands up who was on the piss tonight?  :b

[stevierst]

Meh, working! :-[

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[Dead Eye]

Hands up who was on the piss tonight?  :b

Serious question or did I say something stupid  :pokefun

[darrsi]

[quote author=darrsi link=topic=3710.msg58477#msg58477 date=1360982791]
Hands up who was on the piss tonight?  :b

Serious question or did I say something stupid  :pokefun
[/quote]


No, i'd just got in, still suffering now!  :\
Just waiting for a return phone call now to get called into work.
Can't wait...... :'(

[Lawrence]

I paid £7 (with a trade card, iirc it was about £10 without) for a 32mm socket from Halfords.  If you do it at the same time as the chain then make sure you undo it before you cut the chain off  :rolleyes

[Dead Eye]

Speaking from experience there Lawrence?  :lol

[Lawrence]

Yes, but I have an electric impact wrench which took it straight off

[alexanderfitu]

[quote author=alexanderfitu link=topic=3710.msg1#msg1 date=1360967415]
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-94PC-1-2-1...2c6591433c

Sorted!

Careful there Alex, cheap tools are made of Cheddar (or brie if you're unlucky) and are a false economy. At best, they'll trash themselves, at worst they'll wreck what you're working on and bring a world of pain.

Haven't got any myself, but have only heard good things about halfords pro kit. Expensive full price but nearly always on offer, at which point it becomes sensible - good tools will reward you many times over

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[/quote]


True, and agreed with halfords pro stuff, I have had a 250 pounds halfords kit for 5 years, lots of abuse and its stood up pretty well!


Although with that on ebay, if anything breaks just file a paypal disput and get the money back,

[dudeboy52]

Picked up my new nut and gasket yesterday from Poole Yamaha and was asking about why they come lose and he said it was due to after market sprockets being thinker than the originals so it kind of makes sense now. And it only meant to affect one in every 1000 fazers. So doing mine just in chase 

[alexanderfitu]

That makes no sense, if that was the case then a thicker nut wouldn't help!

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[darrsi]

Picked up my new nut and gasket yesterday from Poole Yamaha and was asking about why they come lose and he said it was due to after market sprockets being thinker than the originals so it kind of makes sense now. And it only meant to affect one in every 1000 fazers. So doing mine just in chase 

Go back to that nice man at Poole Yamaha and hand him a bucket of water, then tell him that his pants are well and truly on fire!

[packie]

That makes no sense, if that was the case then a thicker nut wouldn't help!

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Exactly, the guy in Poole is talking poop!!....


It would have to be a thinner nut again if aftermarket sprockets were bigger. Its obvious that the small few threads on the original nut just didn't have enuff bite and grip and that the lock washer failed dismally too. They sorted one (the nut), but its up to me go sort the lock washer.


The lock washer is a useless addition unless it is secured onto the sprocket IMO. It is designed to stop the nut from opening and it didn't do its job either because it just turned with the nut. I think that if you bond the lock washer onto the sprocket with JB Weld, or Superglue or with something along that lines, and if the bond is solid and secure, then it would be impossible for any nut including the original to work free if the tabs are over the nut properly and the washer is bonded securely to the sprocket. That is what i'm going doing with mine along with thread locking the nut and giving a few extra NMs of torque pressure as well.

[limax2]

Picked up my new nut and gasket yesterday from Poole Yamaha and was asking about why they come lose and he said it was due to after market sprockets being thinker than the originals so it kind of makes sense now. And it only meant to affect one in every 1000 fazers. So doing mine just in chase 

Steady on guys, this all depends on how you read the word "thinker" in the above post. Is it meant to be "thicker" or "thinner"? :\ .
I very much dought it is thicker as all the original Yamaha sprockets I have measured have been between 9.58 to 9.64mm, which is right on the top limit of becoming a tight fit in a 530 size chain. Theoretically a thicker sprocket (or lock washer) would give slightly more thread engagement with the old nut and very slightly less with the new nut. I have never measured aftermarket sprockets but I suspect they may be a bit thinner.
If a replacement sprocket is thinner then the guys comment does make a little bit of sence with the old nut, although he is still barking up the wrong tree. The old thin nut overruns the shaft thread by about 1mm and a thinner sprocket would make it worse. Within reason it would not have much effect on the new 12mm thick nut.
The real issue, which Yamaha acknowledged, was that some bikes had gearbox shafts fitted that were below tolerance on the diameter of the thread. A minimum O.D. of 17.5mm was the figure given. (I have only measured three and the were all around 17.85mm O.D.).
In the distant past when this topic was lively (on the old forum I think) I did a drawing which would illustrate the above ramblings on thickness. I will now attemp to post the drawing on here.

[limax2]

Here should be the drawing.

Edit. A bit bigger than intended  .

[limax2]

along with thread locking the nut and giving a few extra NMs of torque pressure as well.

Along with the new 12mm wide nut Yamaha U.K. recommended a torque of 90 Nm instead of the original 70 Nm. I agree with the thread locking compound but I would be very wary of exceeding the 90 Nm torque figure. Your choice of course but personally I have gone for thread lock and stayed at 70 Nm.

[darrsi]

Still don't believe the 1 in 1000 statement though.


Somebody said on here recently there's 8000 Fazers in the UK, there's simply no way only 8 people have been affected, there's more than that on this forum alone that we know about, and i'm 1 of them!

[limax2]

Still don't believe the 1 in 1000 statement though.

Thankfully I'm not one of them, but I don't believe it either.

[darrsi]

[quote author=darrsi link=topic=3710.msg58674#msg58674 date=1361121831]
Still don't believe the 1 in 1000 statement though.

Thankfully I'm not one of them, but I don't believe it either.
[/quote]


Mine managed to fuse itself on rather than strip threads or fall off, so fortunately it wasn't going to go anywhere in a hurry, judging by the fun and games my mechanic had getting it off to replace it.


But i still believe there should have been a recall, because it is a known fault, and a dangerous one at that.

[packie]

[quote author=packie link=topic=3710.msg58635#msg58635 date=1361101748]
along with thread locking the nut and giving a few extra NMs of torque pressure as well.

Along with the new 12mm wide nut Yamaha U.K. recommended a torque of 90 Nm instead of the original 70 Nm. I agree with the thread locking compound but I would be very wary of exceeding the 90 Nm torque figure. Your choice of course but personally I have gone for thread lock and stayed at 70 Nm.
[/quote]


I wasn't aware of the new recommended 90 nm torque from Yam UK. I was going to add another 5 nm on top of the original 70 nm for a 75 total. Might add 10 nm for a 80 nm total with locking glue just for a bit of balance between the two figures.

But for me, glueing the tab washer is the key if you can get glue strong enuff to bond the two together. You could have your nut finger-tight and it won't be going anywhere if the tab washer can't move and the tabs are properly over the nut.