EU in or out ?

[nick crisp]

[quote author=Slaninar link=topic=19420.msg225240#msg225240 date=1456483174]
[quote author=fazersharp link=topic=19420.msg225178#msg225178 date=1456424370]
I am all for immigration its a fantastic thing, we need doctors - professionals- etc. What we don't need are the un skilled who are out of work in their own countries. Its our country and we should be the ones who decide who is allowed in.   

So it's OK when Serbia pays for education of a doctor/engineer and he works in England, but it's not OK when a mechanic decides he'd rather not work for 10 times less money just because he was born in a wrong place? 
[/quote]
Yes
[/quote]


Looks like the start of a movement  :lol


Support the FOC-U out campaign!

[midden]

[quote author=fazersharp link=topic=19420.msg225244#msg225244 date=1456484189]
[quote author=Slaninar link=topic=19420.msg225240#msg225240 date=1456483174]
[quote author=fazersharp link=topic=19420.msg225178#msg225178 date=1456424370]
I am all for immigration its a fantastic thing, we need doctors - professionals- etc. What we don't need are the un skilled who are out of work in their own countries. Its our country and we should be the ones who decide who is allowed in.   

So it's OK when Serbia pays for education of a doctor/engineer and he works in England, but it's not OK when a mechanic decides he'd rather not work for 10 times less money just because he was born in a wrong place? 
[/quote]
Yes
[/quote]
Auf weidersen pet

Looks like the start of a movement  :lol


Support the FOC-U out campaign!
[/quote]

[fazerscotty]

[quote author=Slaninar link=topic=19420.msg225240#msg225240 date=1456483174]
[quote author=fazersharp link=topic=19420.msg225178#msg225178 date=1456424370]
I am all for immigration its a fantastic thing, we need doctors - professionals- etc. What we don't need are the un skilled who are out of work in their own countries. Its our country and we should be the ones who decide who is allowed in.   

So it's OK when Serbia pays for education of a doctor/engineer and he works in England, but it's not OK when a mechanic decides he'd rather not work for 10 times less money just because he was born in a wrong place? 
[/quote]
Yes

And yes again
[/quote]

[Slaninar]

Well, big corporations (and the EU and USA) also think similarly - only on a more global level.

[pilninggas]

[quote author=fazersharp link=topic=19420.msg225178#msg225178 date=1456424370]
I am all for immigration its a fantastic thing, we need doctors - professionals- etc. What we don't need are the un skilled who are out of work in their own countries. Its our country and we should be the ones who decide who is allowed in.   

So it's OK when Serbia pays for education of a doctor/engineer and he works in England, but it's not OK when a mechanic decides he'd rather not work for 10 times less money just because he was born in a wrong place? 
[/quote]

But aren't most Higher Education students in Serbia self-funding? The majority either pay themselves for the higher ed or their employer pays (and presumably their contract keeps them there until it provides a return for the employer). Ironically the very reason the Serbs (and most EU countries) have reduced or stopped free HE and introduced tuition fees is because of the EU Bologna Accords, that aimed to standardise degrees across the continent and beyond (a noble aim), but incurred a cost implication for many HE providers (presumably after the fall of Communism and two Balkan War the HE resources in Belgrade were a long way behind other nations), which is typically passed on to end users.

[Slaninar]

[quote author=Slaninar link=topic=19420.msg225240#msg225240 date=1456483174]
[quote author=fazersharp link=topic=19420.msg225178#msg225178 date=1456424370]
I am all for immigration its a fantastic thing, we need doctors - professionals- etc. What we don't need are the un skilled who are out of work in their own countries. Its our country and we should be the ones who decide who is allowed in.   

So it's OK when Serbia pays for education of a doctor/engineer and he works in England, but it's not OK when a mechanic decides he'd rather not work for 10 times less money just because he was born in a wrong place? 
[/quote]

But aren't most Higher Education students in Serbia self-funding? The majority either pay themselves for the higher ed or their employer pays (and presumably their contract keeps them there until it provides a return for the employer). Ironically the very reason the Serbs (and most EU countries) have reduced or stopped free HE and introduced tuition fees is because of the EU Bologna Accords, that aimed to standardise degrees across the continent and beyond (a noble aim), but incurred a cost implication for many HE providers (presumably after the fall of Communism and two Balkan War the HE resources in Belgrade were a long way behind other nations), which is typically passed on to end users.
[/quote]


High education has been free until 10 years ago - unless you are a very bad student.


Also, until some 10 years ago, "self funding" was also state subsidized.


For the last 10 years - we get the strictest EU regulations, the worst laws, all in preparation for entering EU.


I don't think EU is good for any country - I'd vote against it if I were in England. I'd vote against it here if it made any difference. However, with government run media (with "democratic EU backing"), and fixing elections, it's impossible to have any impact.

[unfazed]

[quote author=fazersharp link=topic=19420.msg224594#msg224594 date=1455822960]
My prediction is.
Cameron will not get the agreement he is after and will leave saying it was not good enough, that will save his face and he will come home strutting like a peacock.
And there will be no June vote
Mean while France and Germany will put the pressure on the smaller countries to agree to our demands by scaring them that if we leave their gravy train will end,
A new agreement will be sought and agreed (same but re worded)
Cameron will come home and triumph it and a vote will happen in the Autumn.
And then we will leave
Cameron will resign and Boris will become PM.
Mean while we will score no points in the eurovision song contest as the whole of the EU spits on us. 

I have a new prediction
We will vote to leave by a narrow vote and then Cameron will go back to the EU asking for proper wider reaching new terms - which he will get, this time with ease atfer we have showed them we are serious.
Then there will be a new vote and we will vote to stay by the same narrow margin but ofcoures that one will stik.

Look at the Irish Lisbon treaty vote they said no but the EU made made them vote again until they came up with the "correct" result. 
[/quote]

Yep,the old story, keep voting until you get it right  :lol

[lew600fazer]

Pleas vote no so as the French will end up deporting me, my wife and I are going to move to France on 15th March. Trust me not my decision. :'(

[Phil]

Pleas vote no so as the French will end up deporting me, my wife and I are going to move to France on 15th March. Trust me not my decision. :'(

Merde.

Whereabouts are you being 'trafficked' to?
Nice roads though, lots of empty places, better weather on the whole, food & wine is good. 

[VNA]

Just a wee thought;

From what I am reading the polls suggest that;

Scotland will vote to remain
Wales will vote to remain
Northern Ireland will vote to remain.
England will vote to leave.

EU legislation is written into the Scottish, Welsh and NI parliaments/assemblies.  What if those polls turn into a result at the ballot box?

Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland could refuse to cooperate with a withdrawal, worse still they could work together to try and block the Tory government's withdrawal.

Like I said, this all about the Tory party, Cameron united his party for a general election and won, now he might have to pay the price.

[nick crisp]

VNA, what do you think about the EU having more and more say over our 'constitutional powers'? Economic arguments are all very well, but that's not all of what this is about. Nor just immigration. The current immigration debate just highlights wider concerns for me. Again, if we could just stay as part of the EU trading bloc, surely that would be the best thing. You don't want Westminster setting your rules and regulations up there, why is having Brussels do it better?

[fazersharp]

You don't want Westminster setting your rules and regulations up there, why is having Brussels do it better?

I wish I had thought of that, must be that street triple of yours rejuvenating your brain cells

[taylor]

not of to Calais lew are you,   theres a queue to get back in theses days, :rollin

[VNA]

I'm not a big fan of the EU, but as it exists, on balance it's far better to be part of it than not.

VNA, what do you think about the EU having more and more say over our 'constitutional powers'?

What is it that concerns you?

You don't want Westminster setting your rules and regulations up there, why is having Brussels do it better?

Well like a lot of Scots I'm Scottish first, European second and if push comes to shove I'll reluctantly admit to being British.  Certainly the EU acts as a buffer against the more extreme Tory policies. 

Meanwhile think of the potential disaster that potentially lies ahead.  England votes to leave (a majority across the UK then) but Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales vote to remain, they refuse to cooperate with the withdrawal and worse still for DC they pull together in order to fight to remain in the EU.

Is David Cameron going to step in and overrule them? 

[Phil]

Well like a lot of Scots I'm Scottish first, European second and if push comes to shove I'll reluctantly admit to being British.   

If the majority of Scots had thought that then they should have voted to leave the UK, but they didn't.

[nick crisp]

Well like a lot of Scots I'm Scottish first, wish to be considered as European second, and if push comes to shove I'll reluctantly admit to being British, like the rest of the world outside the UK would call me.

FTFY  :thumbup

[Phil]

I've just had a google for the Welsh view, this is from 15th Feb, before Cameron's talks.


http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2016-02-15...eaving-eu/


What about in Wales? This is what our new Barometer poll found (with changes from December once more in brackets):

Remain a member of the European Union: 37% (-3%)
Leave the European Union: 45% (+3%)
Would not vote: 3% (-2%)
Don’t Know: 16% (+2%)


Our previous poll gave Leave the first lead, albeit a very narrow one, that they had experienced in Wales for two years. They have now extended that advantage to a clear eight percentage points.

[mtread]

Not with 'Don't knows' running at 16% they haven't .....

[lew600fazer]

[quote author=lew600fazer link=topic=19420.msg225306#msg225306 date=1456526600]
Pleas vote no so as the French will end up deporting me, my wife and I are going to move to France on 15th March. Trust me not my decision. :'(

Merde.

Whereabouts are you being 'trafficked' to?
Nice roads though, lots of empty places, better weather on the whole, food & wine is good.
[/quote]

Not Calais , Bergerac area, grand daughter is putting pressure on Grandma.

[darrsi]

[quote author=fazersharp link=topic=19420.msg225234#msg225234 date=1456479998]
[quote author=fazersharp link=topic=19420.msg224594#msg224594 date=1455822960]
My prediction is.
Cameron will not get the agreement he is after and will leave saying it was not good enough, that will save his face and he will come home strutting like a peacock.
And there will be no June vote
Mean while France and Germany will put the pressure on the smaller countries to agree to our demands by scaring them that if we leave their gravy train will end,
A new agreement will be sought and agreed (same but re worded)
Cameron will come home and triumph it and a vote will happen in the Autumn.
And then we will leave
Cameron will resign and Boris will become PM.
Mean while we will score no points in the eurovision song contest as the whole of the EU spits on us. 

I have a new prediction
We will vote to leave by a narrow vote and then Cameron will go back to the EU asking for proper wider reaching new terms - which he will get, this time with ease atfer we have showed them we are serious.
Then there will be a new vote and we will vote to stay by the same narrow margin but ofcoures that one will stik.

Look at the Irish Lisbon treaty vote they said no but the EU made made them vote again until they came up with the "correct" result. 
[/quote]

Yep,the old story, keep voting until you get it right  :lol
[/quote]


Well that ain't ever gonna happen, 'cos all politicians are self righteous pricks!
Plus, it's simply impossible to keep everyone happy, it just can't be done.