Can anyone answer this one how many of these refugees have attempted to cross from Syria, Libya to other Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia United Arab Emirates, Iran.
Okay I am aware of the Sunni & Shi'a problems may have a baring on movement so why not organised airlifts to assist the different sects to a country of their faith.
I would have thought that if once you had reached a safe haven/country and were seeking asylum that was that your family are safe etc! but no a lot of these people are proving themselves to be no more than economic migrants by there insistence on getting to Germany and other so called wealthy western nations.
For all the wrongs and mistakes the west have made to rectify these past errors like it or not the Western countries are going to have to put boots on the ground and sort this shit out once and for all.
Also like it or not we are going to have to ask for the assistance of Mr Putin and Co.
Concerning the removal of Gadaffi this time around the USA cannot be blamed for that as they took no action in that cockup, that was down to Britain, France, Germany and Italy.
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Of course they are economic migrants. Would you settle for 1 pound per hour?! For the rest of your life?
So just because one is born in... say UK, they are 100 times more worth than someone born in say Africa?!? Fuck that. Market economy, mobile labour - got that at it's best.
Most things done in a hurry need to be done again - patiently.
Fuck your mobile labour , stay in you own country and do what the rest of us did and fight for a decent living wage and standard of living. Do you think that we just accepted what an employer said we are worth, no we fought for our standard of living through trades unions , protests etc!!! and you think we will simply stand by and let economic migrants just erode all those rights away. All is happening is resentment towards these people who think they can just wander around Europe and pick off jobs for a few ££ or €€ an hour less than a local.
In the UK and I assume in other EU countries there is a minimum wage to protect us from totally unscrupulous employers. If these people keep coming in the droves they are you will see a rise in Nationalism along the lines of what happened in the 1930's and NO ONE wants to see that again, but keep pushing and once that train starts rolling it will be very difficult to stop.
UKIP in the UK only returned 1 MP at the last general election but were still the received the 3rd largest share of the vote @12.6%. If this situation continues they will double their vote next time around and they will continue to gain more support as time goes by.
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(05-09-15, 11:43 PM)lew600fazer link Wrote:
Fuck your mobile labour , stay in you own country and do what the rest of us did and fight for a decent living wage and standard of living. Do you think that we just accepted what an employer said we are worth, no we fought for our standard of living through trades unions , protests etc!!!
You think that would work in Serbia, or Africa. It doesn't. Been there, done that.
(05-09-15, 11:43 PM)lew600fazer link Wrote:
and you think we will simply stand by and let economic migrants just erode all those rights away. All is happening is resentment towards these people who think they can just wander around Europe and pick off jobs for a few ££ or €€ an hour less than a local.
That's what big economies do to small economies. Mass production, price lower for a few cents and small economies are pushed out of the market. All that undeveloped countries have to offer now is cheap labour. Why is it not allowed to be offered in all the markets?
(05-09-15, 11:43 PM)lew600fazer link Wrote:
In the UK and I assume in other EU countries there is a minimum wage to protect us from totally unscrupulous employers. If these people keep coming in the droves they are you will see a rise in Nationalism along the lines of what happened in the 1930's and NO ONE wants to see that again, but keep pushing and once that train starts rolling it will be very difficult to stop.
But that train has rolled long time ago in Syria, Iraq, and even in Europe - former Yugoslavia as the best example.
The problems US was mostly responsible for (with the aid of UK, Germany mostly) is now coming back.
The main problem is that the poor will suffer most - refugees taking most minimum wage jobs I presume. Middle class as well. But the rich I presume will keep getting richer and richer no matter what.
More than half the world population lives in poverty, hunger. Until a worldwide (communist) revolution happens, it will never be good, or right.
Most things done in a hurry need to be done again - patiently.
Most things done in a hurry need to be done again - patiently.
Quote:Fuck your mobile labour , stay in you own country
Umm where do you reside again Lew?
Quote:Can anyone answer this one how many of these refugees have attempted to cross from Syria, Libya to other Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia United Arab Emirates, Iran.
Because probably like us they wish to live in a secular society. Why would a refugee flee the terror of the Wahhabist ISIS, only to try and seek safety in a repressive wahhabist state that is along with some of our other so called Gulf Allies accused of funding ISIS?
Quote:This "we"..... I hope you dont mean me...or my family.....or my extended family.....becuse we all have values far from what you claim....do you mean yourself......i would hope not......do you mean your own country, the UK...or do you mean half of the world......anyway i think to state that this royal "we" is to blame is to not admit that you participate to be the "we" as one of the sum of parts.
Yes 'we' as in the UK. We have a responsibility to these refugees. And a responsibility to resolve the many issues of our making in the Middle East.
This crises is potentially the tip of the iceberg.
VNA, I live in Spain, why?because I can fucking well afford to, I also have a home in the UK , why because I fucking well can afford to +it makes me money. Why have I got this kind of life style, because I worked all my fucking life at sea 43 years, but even that started to change, why because of cheap foreign labour.
I have sympathy for those from war torn countries yes let the genuine ones in give them support and comfort , but as soon as this shit is sorted out ship em back.
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Quote:VNA, I live in Spain, why?
So you are an immigrant in Spain. Shouldn't the Spanish ship you back (Lord help the English!)
Or should you not practise what you preach and "stay in you own country"?
Big difference I am not here living off the state, I pay taxes in the UK and taxes in Spain. Next question?
Oh the guy that does the garden and cleans the pool is a young Spanish lad that a group of us employ.
I have no doubt that my tax bill will increase this year here and the UK seeing as Spain and the UK are taking in refugees/economic migrants.
This will no doubt please you and a few others, Mr Ian Duncan Smith has stopped expats winter fuel allowance £200.00. Now I don't have a problem with that as he says the government have to make savings also I don't need it.
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Quote:Oh the guy that does the garden and cleans the pool is a young Spanish lad that a group of us employ.
Probably can't afford a house though cos all you wealthy economic migrants have pushed the house prices up, and as a UK landlord not just in Spain but the UK too.
Quote:stay in you own country
But seriously shouldn't you practise what you preach?
Quote:I am not here living off the state,
Under UK rules, Asylum Seekers are not allowed to work. They are forced, against their will, to live off the state.
VNA, just for you
[color=rgb(37, 37, 37)] An [/color][color=rgb(37, 37, 37)] [/size]economic migrant[/color][color=rgb(37, 37, 37)] [/size] is someone who [/color][color=rgb(11, 0, 128)] [/size]emigrates[/color][color=rgb(37, 37, 37)] [/size] from one region to another because living conditions or job opportunities are not good enough for one's expectations in their own country and to seek an improvement in their standard of living elsewhere.[/color][/size] [color=rgb(37, 37, 37)][/color][color=rgb(11, 0, 128)][1][/color][color=rgb(37, 37, 37)][/color][/color][color=rgb(37, 37, 37)][/color][color=rgb(11, 0, 128)][2][/color][color=rgb(37, 37, 37)][/color][/color][color=rgb(37, 37, 37)] Economic migrants who work outside of their home country are termed [/color][color=rgb(11, 0, 128)] [/size]migrant workers[/color][color=rgb(37, 37, 37)] [/size] by the United Nations.[/color][color=rgb(37, 37, 37)][/size] [/color][color=rgb(37, 37, 37)][/color][color=rgb(11, 0, 128)][[/color][color=rgb(37, 37, 37)][/color][size=14px]
I am retired and live in Spain as I like the climate.
So are you saying that as an EU citizen I do not have the right to live in another EU member state.
The fact that these refugees are not wanting to stay in the first country in the EU that has allowed them to land for me shifts their status from refugee to economic migrant. Have you noticed though that those flooding into Germany are not Black? also a lot of people from Syria have startlingly Blue eyes!!!!
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I have just e mailed, d Cameron about this subject, instead of arguing on here tell him, his e mail on on the net, surely it,s better to tell someone who can do something about it, instead of kicking of with fellow wankers, eeerrrh fockers lol, xx lew Is ace living the dream.
sent from my carafan in tenby, 
Quote:I am retired and live in Spain as I like the climate.
Nothing to do with economics then. Aye right!
Oh you sad sad person, you just go on and enjoy your climate mate. Cold wet and windy, no summer this year for you worth talking about. Maybe you have that SADS syndrome, Just think the onset of winter short daylight hours, freezing winter temperatures, yes you have a lot to look forward to for the next 8 months at least.
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(06-09-15, 02:56 PM)lew600fazer link Wrote: VNA, I live in Spain, why?because I can fucking well afford to, I also have a home in the UK , why because I fucking well can afford to +it makes me money. Why have I got this kind of life style, because I worked all my fucking life at sea 43 years, but even that started to change, why because of cheap foreign labour.
I have sympathy for those from war torn countries yes let the genuine ones in give them support and comfort , but as soon as this shit is sorted out ship em back.
You've worked hard Lew - where you choose to spend your money on living is totally up to you. Money and taxes into two economies = top bloke in my book. Jealous as fook...........crack on fella :thumbup
(06-09-15, 05:14 PM)lew600fazer link Wrote: Big difference I am not here living off the state, I pay taxes in the UK and taxes in Spain. Next question?
Oh the guy that does the garden and cleans the pool is a young Spanish lad that a group of us employ.
I have no doubt that my tax bill will increase this year here and the UK seeing as Spain and the UK are taking in refugees/economic migrants.
This will no doubt please you and a few others, Mr Ian Duncan Smith has stopped expats winter fuel allowance £200.00. Now I don't have a problem with that as he says the government have to make savings also I don't need it.
As said before - you're paying your own way.
My 2p - where and how Lew chooses to live has got feck all to do with the basic issue of UK immigration. Any Happy Clappers or tree huggers need to aim elsewhere.
Those are my principles...if you don't like them I have others.
Few percent of the richest people in the world hold about 90% of the world resources.
90% of the world population are poor.
Few percent of not so poor people (USA and EU middle class, mostly) are hoping to stay in the middle, sort of an oasis as long as possible. But since the fall of communism, there is no alternative, and soon all the workers will be, like in China, working for a few dollars per hour. Immigrants are just making that process a bit faster, but it is not their fault and they aren't the ones to lay blame on. IMO.
Most things done in a hurry need to be done again - patiently.
If this has been said before, sorry, just not going to trawl through five pages.
Illegal immigration isn't the problem is it!
Complete fabrication, I didn't make it up!
Most things done in a hurry need to be done again - patiently.
Just remember Slaninar.
There are two sides to every story.
The Bosnian War for independence resulted in large-scale destruction and dramatic population shifts during the Siege of Sarajevo between 1992 and 1995. Thousands of Sarajevans lost their lives under the constant bombardment and sniper shooting at civilians by the Serb forces during the siege.[51] It is the longest siege of a capital city in the history of modern warfare.[52] Serb forces of the Republika Srpska and the Yugoslav People's Army besieged Sarajevo, the largest city of Bosnia and Herzegovina, from 5 April 1992 to 29 February 1996 during the Bosnian War.
When Bosnia and Herzegovina declared independence from Yugoslavia and achieved United Nations recognition, the Serbian leaders and army whose goal was to create a "greater Serbia", declared a new Serbian national state Republika Srpska (RS) which was carved from the territory of Bosnia and Herzegovina,[53] encircled Sarajevo with a siege force of 18,000[54] stationed in the surrounding hills, from which they assaulted the city with weapons that included artillery, mortars, tanks, anti-aircraft guns, heavy machine-guns, multiple rocket launchers, rocket-launched aircraft bombs, and sniper rifles.[54] From 2 May 1992, the Serbs blockaded the city. The Bosnian government defence forces inside the besieged city were poorly equipped and unable to break the siege.
During the siege, 11,541 people lost their lives, including over 1,500 children. An additional 56,000 people were wounded, including nearly 15,000 children.[51] The 1991 census indicates that before the siege the city and its surrounding areas had a population of 525,980
Yes the Albanians did there fair share of butchering Serbs wrongs on both sides. There are no winners in any wars only victims.
The world was a far safer place with that wall running through Berlin.
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No question about that. This is just about refugees - numbers. All the panic.
Most things done in a hurry need to be done again - patiently.
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