Experiences with Ivan Kit

[Tinkerer843]

I use a heat gun where the seal fits.

[unfazed]

Have you removed the bottom bolt?

[jul1us]

I want to express my gratitude again to Mike and everybody here who helped me Ivanising my Fazer.


Just had a vacation in Sardinia and had a wonderful time with my Fazer!

[Falcon 269]

Looks like you had a brilliant trip.

Good to hear the Fazer is running well again after the troubles you had a while ago.

[dueruote]

Hi Everyone !!

I've installed Ivan standard kit about 6 years ago, I have since opened up the carbs two times to clean them.

The bike does run very nicely as everyone describes, but I feel it's like the equivalent of a modern bike which is always stuck in sport riding mode.
By this I mean, there is always lots of power available at every rpm, it's like the bike is always pushing me to go harder, when sometimes I just want a smooth relaxing ride.

I have trimmed down the diameter of the throttle cable pull on the right handle bar, and it help slightly.

Without having to take out the carburetors every time, would there be some other mod that can put the engine in "normal" riding mode (less nervous throttle response) ?

[Gnasher]

Not really without a good deal of work. Either less right wrist or remove the Ivan's and go back to standard, it would be roughly if not less than messing about with the Ivan's.

[Falcon 269]

Unfortunately, as these bikes get older, having to clean the carbs every few years isn't going to be unusual unless they are ridden regularly year-round. Variable quality fuel will also contribute to this.

Ivan's standard, ie Slip On, kit doesn't change the power delivery of the bike to make it any more aggressive. It just fills in the lower end and adds a bit to the midrange. Most owners I did this job for said that it enabled them to ride one gear higher, so if anything it made the engine less demanding to use.

With the stock end can, there's only a marginal peak power gain of perhaps 2 - 3bhp. With an aftermarket can, maybe 4 - 6bhp but that's at full throttle and doubt if the OP is using that.

It sounds from the OPs description that he's having to ride through flat spots to get to better power delivery higher up the rev range. That points to something amiss with the kit installation and/or gumming issues in the carbs.

Either way, I don't believe removing the Slip On kit will be the answer.

[Gnasher]

The way I'm reading this, he's saying it's too much power, the bike is running fine. Just too much for where/how he now rides, i.e. all the low/mid range the Ivan's puts back. If that's the case either put it back totally standard with all the holes in the power curve or perhaps he needs a different bike better suited to how/where he rides nowadays.

A fair few of my customers have moved to less powerful machines as, let's say they've aged.

[dueruote]

I'm not the OP but since OP's issue had been addressed, it still looked adequate to follow up given the thread theme.

I'm not complaining the bike has too much power, just wish it could be a bit softer in its delivery in the lower and mid range.
I have installed the slip on version of the kit and I  have also an Akrapovic slip on, but not the full exhaust.

By the way, I have drilled both bypass holes. 
At the time these were the most widespread instructions or perhaps I missed the feedback of drilling only one.
Is it a big issue ?  Could the engine run too rich with two enlarged bypass holes ?

In the end, I much prefer the engine as it is now with the kit.
I'm just talking about fine tuning, but no way I wanted to go back to how it was before.

Thanks !!

[PieEater]

....

I'm not complaining the bike has too much power, just wish it could be a bit softer in its delivery in the lower and mid range......

Do you know if you have an ignition advancer fitted, these can make a noticeable increase to low down pull but it's not night and day, and I doubt is related to your problem, but reverting to the OEM ignition plate if you have an advancer fitted should make some difference?

[dueruote]

Do you know if you have an ignition advancer fitted, these can make a noticeable increase to low down pull but it's not night and day, and I doubt is related to your problem, but reverting to the OEM ignition plate if you have an advancer fitted should make some difference?

It's the original pick up coil disc.

I was thinking maybe worth to try original diaphragm springs in the carburetors, or less aggressive length cut.

Also, the fact that I drilled both bypass holes is still in the back of my mind.
Can't say what impact that makes compared to drilling just one.

[Falcon 269]

There's no discernible difference in power output or delivery with either one or two bypass holes enlarged. Yes, it will run richer at idle with two done but that's about all. Don't sweat it.

I agree with your idea of trying uncut slide springs, although the main reason for doing this was to speed up slide response in the mid-throttle regime.

[Gaz66]

Thank you so much for these incredibly detailed answers which are so helpful.


Gaz66, so you are saying cleaning the carb ultrasonic is bad?


I just bought another carb on eBay to be safe (and leave my current one untouched), it has been already cleaned ultrasonic by the seller.


There are also Tourmax repair sets included. Can you see from the photo if they include everything I need?


Photos:


https://i.imgur.com/3PBMYMw.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/hpeg0Qe.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/cUHBJcy.jpg


The diaphragm seems not included. Would you recommend this:


1. https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005004439949836.html


or


2. https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005004511397054.html




Also, the seller of the carb also wants to sell me this "Long Boy extended Fuel Screw Set": http://www.factorypro.com/Prod_Pages/prody69.html


Would you recommend that with the Ivan Kit or is it not needed?

Hay Julius.
 To answer your query on ultrasonic cleaning, it has its place, I find it's pointless unless you completely disassemble a bank of carbs  so you can rotate them around in the machine, something that can't be done assembled, I prefer a chemical solvent cleaner (Holts EGR cleaner) really potent stuff, dissolves all oxidation on alloy & brass parts, just keep it away from plastic & rubber, guitar string cut offs are ok to poke stubborn pilot jets clear, recently come across a potentially better jet poker (3D printer nozzle cleaners) cheap too, no carb jet cleaning tools exists, don't fall for the rubbish marketed as jet cleaners, it's not, it's a gas welding torch nozzle cleaner & it's abrasive.

Just seen the links of carb spares.
Genuine is always best, many parts are no longer available.
Tourmax = OEM quality, it's often new old stock Genuine parts repackaged at a lesser price, all come from Japan, quality is second to none imho, I use lots Tourmax hydraulic brake repair kits, I 100% recommend them.

Avoid cheap carb jet kits, Keyster is a popular brand, mostly ok if you're stuck for parts, but they do sell some crap float bowl seals in some kits, I swerve em if possible.

Re: Second hand carbs:
Check slide rubber diaphragms in a dark room backlit with a small torch, only way to verify there's no micro pin holes present, replace every O'ring in the carbs, split em apart & replace the lot.
Viton O'rings are the seals of choice for many, Viton is way way over priced.
Air-con spec green Nitrile O'rings, box of 250 off eBay cost less than a dozen Viton seals.
These seals are higher spec than the black nitrile, both are fuel resistant, most fuel hoses are made from Nitrile, I see no reason to pay silly money for Viton seals.
I've serviced hundreds of sets of carbs, I buy a couple of boxes of metric & imperial of green Nitrile, gives numerous sizes to play with, I find it often works for a better snug fit to go down a size & up in thickness, seals are a stretch fit, but they're are a tad thicker & actually fit more snug than the so called correct sized seals, especially the pesky little seals in between the carb bodies on the fuel link pipes, I always use a tiny smear of silicon gun grease, it keeps seals supple, they never dry out or leak.
I can re-seal a bank of carbs for a pennies compared to the Viton stuff.

Re: Ivans jet kit:
As I've said before & many other forum members will echo this .. DEFO YES YES YES, buy an MB kit, you won't be disappointed.

Re: Extended fuel mixture screws.
Mmmm potentially a good idea, unless you have a wide band gas analyser, you'll get no more benefit than using the OEM screws, access is poor even with extended screws, carb over starter motor it's virtually impossible to adjust its mixture screw where you want it, access is that bad, I drop the starter motor out if I need to tweek screws.
It's all guess work unless you want accuracy & that requires a gas analyser of some description, hence the bolts in each of the lower exhaust headers.