Quick straw poll - the welfare £26K cap - good or bad?

[Sunny Intervals]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/...-jobs-2012

4500 jobs to be lost in construction you say?  To be honest I'm not surprised with my recent experience of 'trades' in London.  Add in utilities to the pot of unreliable idiots with no professional pride or ability too!

Foc me did I just get tarred again  :rollin :rollin :rollin

[alan sherman]

Depends - do you work for EDF and agree an appointment for the meter to be changed with my wife a month ago?  Was it you that didn't turn up to brighten my 'work from home' day?  Or send the text saying the electrician would be there the day?  I'm sure it wasn't you that i spoke to on the phone who said that date was what was recorded in the system but rescheduled for the next week.  i really hope it wasn't you that turned up the following day to find no one home - what a waste of the electrician's time!  I know it wasn't you that sent the first latter relating to the account as a second and final demand for payment (er, against what bill?) - because that was computer generated.
:rolleyes





If you are a builder who quotes for removing a wall without even bothering to poke yer head through the loft hatch to see if it is a supporting wall or not then you deserve the tarring! 

[alan sherman]

Even the BBC seems to think it is too much judging from this article:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16812185

[Gingernutz]

I love the news tonight that the Indian government said they didn't want the £290M a year aid given by the UK and had to be begged to take it because it would embarass David Cameron if they didn't. They said it was peanuts..................
Ironic isn't it that the amout saved from the 26K cap is nearly exactly the same as the cost of avoiding David Cameron's embarassment
I still think its right not to pay people this much but next time the government winges about trying to find a million here or there I'm remember todays news

[Farjo]

Just remember where you read it!

[dogruff]

Rules in N.I.(UK) are different.Rent is capped at £290pm.If you're rent is any dearer you pay the discrepancy out of you,re own pocket.All DSS are not the same.I have been made redundant 3 times,with no big pay offs.Presently in a 1 year temp contract for NICS,which will end in July.Probably have to sign on again,unless i,m one of the fortunate ones.

[VNA]

I love the news tonight that the Indian government said they didn't want the £290M a year aid given by the UK and had to be begged to take it because it would embarass David Cameron if they didn't. They said it was peanuts..................

Aid is an investment.  It generally comes with strings attached.  I haven't seen that news report.  But it was generally understood that that aid package was tied to a large arms deal, a sweetener.

What I assume (my guess) is that the Indians are saying shove your arms deal.  Or, you'll need to give us a much bigger sweetener before we buy the arms that we don't really need.

[VNA]

I still think its right not to pay people this much but next time the government winges about trying to find a million here or there I'm remember todays news

While there is little doubt that the welfare system needs reform, it should not be a priority at this time.

Depending on whose figures you read, in 2010 bankers were paid between 6 and 13 billion pounds in bonuses.  Don't ask me why the figure is so vague, but it's foccing huge.  And that's basically our money, tax payers money.

And that's just bankers.  What about the energy bosses, the supermarkets, and the subsidised railway bosses, etc etc etc etc.  And all these companies use the welfare system to subsidise many of their workforce employment costs.

The  there's the 'British' companies registered abroad in order to avoid paying billions upon billions of tax - massive tax avoidance.  Along with non-doms, some of whom while paying no tax in the UK sit in the house of Lords making decisions on walfare reform!

The truth is we are all getting fucked to keep the so called 'elite', and those who wish to lick their arses, in the style in which they are accustomed.

[Grahamm]

Rules in N.I.(UK) are different.Rent is capped at £290pm.If you're rent is any dearer you pay the discrepancy out of you,re own pocket.

Many years ago I was on benefits (Job Seekers Allowance and Rent Rebate) and the Council decided that, to save money, they were going to try to force private landlords to bring down rents on their properties, so they said they would cut £5 off my Rent Rebate and only pay £50 of the £55 rent I was charged (which was actually the standard going rate at the time).

But the Landlords had no intention of charging less rent, so this meant that I would have had to make up the £5 deficit from my JSA which is what the Government says is the minimum I needed to live on (and if the Government says it is the minimum, you can bet that that's the *bare* minimum!) leaving me having to find an extra £5 a week from somewhere (out of work, no jobs available, no savings, where from, exactly?!)

It took a couple of letters to my MP, but fortunately the Council backed down meaning I didn't end up being used as a politiical football.

[dogruff]

Yep! Know the feelin mate.Great topic - someones just opened up a real can of worms.Tho i have heard that some families in mainland on dss live in houses that a husband and wife (both working) could not afford.I think a cap needs to be implemented,but at a higher rate than proposed,and anyone out of work for more than a year should be forced to do community work.I wouldn.t object if it was me.

[pitternator]

I reiterate my above point ...the tactic is working - almost all on here are working class folk, and we are fighting amongst ourselves. Meanwhile the big picture gets foggy..
its not just bonuses either- I would not mind so much, but these bonuses are paid with little regard to performance and benefit to the nation. We should be asking what we want from our government.The present one is too partisan, too much pre- occupied with its years old doctrine and plan. I dont see how we can reduce the welfare state just by cutting the figures. We all know we have to spend less, but a caring government would be looking at best ways to do this, not just cut spending. Thats the easy bit.Our society has developed to where we are now  over decades , its no simple thing to change it.
To me, as someone who has never claimed benefit, I still want a welfare system there to act as a safety net and a springboard back into work again. I dont see these reforms do help, cos just what is being done to get folk back into work, if there aint any jobs to go to ?
As for the % of the population who scrounge...well thats always been there...its just Tory  bull to try to convince low intelligence people its some sort of recent phenomenon..You really need to ask yourself just why we have 3 million unemployed...listen...it is not because the benefit system is too generous !

As a construction worker I also feel the generalisations about my trade are ridiculous...its absurd tbh. Work is very hard to come by, and to judge our industry by the performance of firms like EDF is daft.There also is no regulation to stop anyone setting up as a builder, so with 3 million unemployed, is anyone surprised by an alarming rise in cowboys.?
Lastly , with regard to education, I cant recall a time when " everybody" exited school with qualifications, and indeed there were still people back then who struggled to read and write. You cant just  blame parents for this either, its mostly down to the individual...if they have learning difficulties...its not because parents didnt try. Its yet another stupid generalisation.I will say that in my day there were better facilities for what we called " remedial" classes, whereas today the schools are only bothered with league tables, not trying equally for all pupils.what is different is today there is less discipline, and modern media is very good at disrupting attempts to do so... so many distracting things on offer today.

[Chillum]

I'm not sure if this is on-topic or not, but can anyone explain to me how hiking up business rates for small local businesses and putting them out of business is good for the economy?

I'm seeing it all over, and shops are left empty - it's not as if someone else comes along and pays the new inflated rate. How in the hell does this benefit *anyone* ?

[rustyrider]

The rules on business rates changed a couple of years ago.  It used to be that there were no, or reduced, rates payable on an empty property.  Now the business rates have to be paid even if the place is empty.  That's why some landlords have demolished perfectly good business premises.  There is an upside to it though.  If you want to rent a business unit that has been empty for ages, the landlord will often take a much lower rent for it as long as you take responsibility for the business rates.  He may be making virtually nothing on the deal but at least it isn't costing him anything.

[Chillum]

The rules on business rates changed a couple of years ago.  It used to be that there were no, or reduced, rates payable on an empty property.  Now the business rates have to be paid even if the place is empty.  That's why some landlords have demolished perfectly good business premises.  There is an upside to it though.  If you want to rent a business unit that has been empty for ages, the landlord will often take a much lower rent for it as long as you take responsibility for the business rates.  He may be making virtually nothing on the deal but at least it isn't costing him anything.

That is seriously F*cked up!  :eek

[pointer2null]

I thought £26k was far too generous. [size=1.45em]Benefits should be capped at a level equivalent to the minimum wage.[/size]

If you ain't working expect to have live in a small house
If you ain't working expect to move to a cheaper area
If you ain't working you can't have sky plus, a new car, new mobile, 5000 inclusive minutes etc
If you want kids you pay for them, don't expect me to fund your breeding.

Bring back the workhouse, if you want something from the state, then give something to the state.

Simples. God I wish I was Prime Minister.

[richfzs]

P2N, all makes perfect sense to me.

[VNA]

The problem is that most people on the minimum wage are on benefits.

Big wealthy companies, dodging billions in tax, paying big shareholder dividends and paying their board of directors millions upon millions of pounds in salaries, bonuses and pensions are shirking their responsibilites by paying  large chunks of their hard working staff the minimun wage (or just over), rather than a living wage.

The result is that we the tax payer subsidise multi billion pound businesses and their greedy bosses.

Nor is this any help whatsoever to our economy. 

Rich people hoard money, working people spend it. 

As for people who cannot work I do not believe that they should be punished for this by being plunged into poverty.

Nor is it possible for 3 million unemployed people to pick up the few dozen jobs out there.

People need to wake up to why we are in this mess. 

Is it those who are on benefits who have destroyed our industry, deregulated the banks, filled the pockets of the rich with billions, wrecked the economy and practically bankrupted the UK?

I don't think so.

[alan09]

Simples. God I wish I was Prime Minister.

:thumbup you'd get my vote mate

[Sunny Intervals]

Bring back the workhouse, if you want something from the state, then give something to the state.

The modern version is the state pays a Private company to place claimants with private companies to work for free.

http://www.boycottworkfare.org/

As always the taxpayer pays to support the profits of private industry again.

I just applied for the summer maintenance jobs on the council.
Fully expect that wit cuts these real jobs will disappear over the next few years to be replaced by workfare type placements.

Start using unemployed to fill jobs for their benefits , you lose the jobs.
And end up with everybody as a state employee much like the old soviet system

[Sunny Intervals]

and also if the Tories get in for a second term I fully expect the minimum wage to go as well.
It's definitely an obstacle to employment in their world.
So we the taxpayer. will probably end up paying out more in benefits(tax Credits)
to cover the fact we have millions in jobs that don't pay a living wage.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comme...level.html