Footballer Ched Evans

[lew600fazer]

The arguement I am putting forward is he is now being victimised. I am at a loss though as to why his so called mates did not go down with him. If it was rape?? surely they should have been sent down as well for what is it, aiding and abetting whatever the term is?

Certainly someone is happy for him to go out with their daughter as her father was offering to bank roll Oldham FC to the tune of £2 million.
People have been saying he has not apoligised or shown any sign of remorse for his actions. In his eyes why should he? he believes he is innocent of rape. I believe he has now since issued a statement saying he regrets his actions.

Being tried by jury is old hat and should be done away with. For me it should be those that know the law sitting on a bench. They listen to the evidence and decide guilty or not guilty end off.

[nick crisp]

Shoot them all. :thumbup

[mtread]

Lew, you're not reading the transcripts properly. His mate wasn't convicted because the jury agreed that was consensual. She went to the room with him willingly. What they did not think was consensual was  Ched turning up later when she was too drunk. They did not believe his story that she said yes. Also what people are missing is that he's already lost the appeal, as well as the original court case. What he's pinning his hopes on now is a review of the case. He's not being victimised. He's guilty until proved innocent. As to your last comment about juries, thank f*** you're not in charge :-)

[richfzs]

As to your last comment about juries, thank f*** you're not in charge :-)

Amen to that!! :eek

[lew600fazer]

Have you ever done jury service ?

I think you may be surprised at how I would view what sentence should be handed down depending on the crime/offence.

[mtread]

Lew - yes, and I managed to understand that the judge would explain all the points of law to the jury. The judge would give direction to the jury to decide what facts to consider against which points of law. The job of the jury is to decide on the evidence, which is true and which isn't. However I agree with you that Evans' case should have been decided by just a judge. That's what would have happened if he'd pleaded guilty in the first place.
As to my 'nugget' it's in the appeal transcript:

The prosecution case was that the applicant had booked the room at the Premier Inn with the main or sole purpose of procuring a girl or girls later that night.

and of course as we now know, the prosecution was correct

[taylor]

I did jury service a few years back, we where in the back room talking it over, it was 11/1 guilty, then the bloke says bollocks I gotta meet my missus in burger king in an hour 12/0 guilty lol  9 years he got.

[dazza]

The fact is , he's a predatory cunt. There are plenty of women out there who'd be up for a bit of fun no matter how kinky it was.
If push come to shove he could of rented one by the hour and had her full consent.

This is copied and pasted from my FB messages from another young woman I found just before Christmas.
Can you imagine what would have happened if a dickhead like Evans had come across her.
Every young lady is someone's daughter, sister, mother even but more importantly a human being and deserves respect, not taken advantage of.
He's just a cunt, end of. Let him try and get a proper job now and scrape a living like the rest of us have to.

Laura
      Drag Link/Files Here Drop Files Here Drop Link Here  [table]  [tr] [td] Chat Conversation Start November 9, 2014 1:43 pm    Hello Darren , I am hoping I have the right person .
I think you are the very kind soul that helped me on Friday night .
I cannot believe the mess I must of been in .
Have you any information as to what state I was in , if I said anything to you at all .
I am truly thankful that you were so kind and got me help .
Did you call the ambulance ?
Thankyou so very much for handing my phone back too!!!
A true gentleman and I am truly grateful .
Laura x        Hi Laura, yes you have the right person. Pretty sure I saw you in the Ypres earlier that night. I left early to go see the tail end of Skadekat at the White Horse. I saw you on the pavement in Hawthorn rd on my way home. You managed to pass me your phone when I asked if there was anyone I could call to help you. I tried calling twice and left a message but couldn't get through. You also told me your first name and roughly where you lived. I didn't want to risk manhandling you into my car as I didn't want to get accused of anything + you told me that you was going to be ill. By this time you kept slipping in and out of consciousness so I checked your breathing and pulse and slightly repositioned you so you wouldn't choke. It was then I must have put your phone in my pocket when I got mine out to call you an ambulance. As soon as the ambulance turned up I left not realizing I still had your phone till I got home. I'm glad your ok and you're welcome for the help.....JUST DON;T MAKE A HABIT OF IT...LOL X    November 9, 2014 3:36 pm  What a kind gentleman you are .
A huge Thankyou from me and my family .
I dread to think what could of happened to me if it wasn't for you .
Truly truly grateful xxxx
What a gent xxxxx    Chat Conversation End    Sent from Messenger[/td][/tr][/table]      Camera  Choose a sticker or emoticon                Laura

[Gnasher]

Its an interesting debate and there are in my opinion rights and wrongs on both sides.

Again in my opinion Ched is just another overpaid premadonna footballer who thinks he can do whatever he likes. Responsibility for some of that attitude has to be shouldered by the very sponsors who are now turning their backs on him, after all they've provided a slice of the money he's been paid over the years and the football industry.  The FA has over the years allowed/turned a blind eye to the behaviour of players (mentioned above, I would add Terry to that list) by doing so this has sent messages to other players and the 1000's of fans who follow them that it's actually ok to cheat on your pregnant wife or screw your best mates wife etc if you’re a top flight footballer.  So is reasonable to think Ched thinks it's ok behave in the same cavalier manner in his case pickup, screw, film his mates with a young drunk woman....... it's not!

On the other hand the woman has to share some responsibility for allowing herself to get into this situation,  I was raised to believe that girls who would happily allow you to screw them within an hour or so of meeting them aren't exactly full of morals!  That’s doesn't mean she's not entitled to the protection of the law, that’s said we must all take responsibility for our own actions.  I don’t think she deserved it, no one does but she defiantly put herself at risk of such behaviour so in my book she's not helped herself and should share some of the responsibility.

Lew600 has a point Ched has in the eye's of the law served his time so it's reasonable to expect him to want to get on with his life and he must be allowed to do that or the system has failed.  However Ched has to realise with a job in the public eye and footballers are in the public eye, even role models who because of their status hold positions of privilege, with that comes responsibility.  Ched hasn't regardless if he did or did not commit rape acted responsibly and as with most exclusive clubs, orders or organisations if you behave in an irresponsible manner or break their rules or the law you're out!  Arguably Ched has done all three certainly the latter (at present pending appeal) and the former, whether he's broke the FA rules is another matter as they are happy to allow the actions of others mentioned to go unpunished.           

So I my humble opinion he should go away quietly, learn from his mistakes and move on with his life not playing professional football.                   

The one statement I totally disagree with

Being tried by jury is old hat and should be done away with. For me it should be those that know the law sitting on a bench. They listen to the evidence and decide guilty or not guilty end off.

This is a right which is the corner stone of our justice system and must remain, a trial by jury makes us all part of the judicial system i.e. we are judged by fellow citizens and sentenced by judges by applying tariffs given to them.   

[mtread]

Of course she shouldn't have got herself into that situation, of course she was taking risks. But she didn't say 'rape me'. She's not to blame and cannot share the responsibility. That's all this is about (in law).

[darrsi]

I did jury service a few years back, we where in the back room talking it over, it was 11/1 guilty, then the bloke says bollocks I gotta meet my missus in burger king in an hour 12/0 guilty lol  9 years he got.

I've actually been called to do jury service twice, about 5 years apart.
I had a similar scenario, this fella just kept agreeing with anything the person next to him said, then finally came out with the corker "Can we hurry this up, i need to do my washing." The bloke on trial was looking at 3 years inside.
3 others on another case made no notes whatsoever and could barely understand English, i have no idea how they even got that far to be a juror?


In the jury room you'll always get the big "I am" who has controlling issues who will try and dominate and even bully you into an answer which agrees with their theory, but they're normally a total bag of wind when challenged.


One thing i did learn though, is that there is no point in ever pleading guilty, because between the lawyers, who talk bullshit for a living, and incompetent jurors, there is every chance you will get let off whatever you're accused of, if i didn't see it with my own eyes i would never have believed it.


I also learned never to judge anyone until you've heard both sides of the story, because some people are just very good manipulative liars, but when you've heard both sides you realise it's much easier hearing the truth than it is hearing someone trying to keep a lie going, especially when several people are involved, unless of course you have sociopathic tendencies.  :lol

[Gnasher]

Of course she shouldn't have got herself into that situation, of course she was taking risks. But she didn't say 'rape me'. She's not to blame and cannot share the responsibility. That's all this is about (in law).

If you run across a motorway or any busy main road and get hit is it the drivers fault for hitting you or your fault for running acorss the road putting yourself at risk?  Or if you got drunk walked along the top of a sea wall and fell in is it the walls fault or the pub who gave you the drink......no it's your fault or should they build an anti drunk idiots fence along the top of the wall just incase!  Or fence every mile of road except where the crossing are like our railways so idoits can't play chicken with trains or traffic.

This is society today or rather money grabbing solicitors!  It's always someone's else's fault, I'm crippled because I tried to run across a busy main road, or played chicken with a 300 ton train at a level crossing! 

Of course she's got some responsibility she put herself there, she went to a room with a bloke she'd met only hours before, she got drunk and by her own admission can't remember anything!  If she'd hadn't arguably it wouldn't have happened, this doesn't excuse Ched or the others behaviour but she's got to take some responsibility, I bet she wont do it again!         

[Gingernutz]

Couldn't agree more - no blame should be apportioned to the girl- regardless of guilty or innocent she was taken advantage of at least and raped at worst. Getting hammered isn't a crime punishable by predators.

As I said in my last comment there are aspects which leave doubt in my mind, the lack of alcohol in her system despite the amnesia is odd.  For her to have been unconscious as a result of alcohol at 4 am to the point of being entirely alcohol free by 12 suggests she either has a very low tolerance for alcohol or was only as drunk as she said - tipsy.  If she had 6 pints at midnight there would be alcohol in her system until 5 pm. The most she can have had was 4 pints for her to be clear by twelve.  I have never met anyone who was unconscious after 4 pints. This issue was disregarded in the trial and evidence from a specialist wasn't considered at the appeal.  The whole thing revolves around how drunk she was.  Disinhibited and 'enthusiastic' as claimed by the defense or unconscious as claimed by the prosecution. Regardless of my doubts he has had his day in court and whilst the legal battle continues he isn't going to be cleared any day soon. 

As a sex offender he should expect prejudice - not always fair but then that goes with the territory - he put himself where he is.  There is no easy solution for him  but why should we care? ?
Consider a different case - Jeremy forrest the teacher who took his 15 year old pupil to France will be nearing release date - probably March this year.  Does anyone think it should be easy for him to get a job? 

[mtread]

If you run across a motorway or any busy main road and get hit is it the drivers fault for hitting you or your fault for running acorss the road putting yourself at risk?

I think you will find that if the driver is intent on driving straight at you and deliberately running you over, it's definitely his fault ..................

[taylor]

yes darrsi I agree never judge until you hear both sides, very very true that one.

[VNA]

Well said vna. (although I do confess, I got a bit lost in your last paragraph?)

Cheers richfzs,

What I was trying to point out was that if I am pissed I can't legally drive and nor (in my case) I am allowed to go to work.  A big part of the reason is that my decision making process is impaired, I can no longer be relied on to make the right or sensible decisions.

Ched Evan's buddy was on the look out for a girl who would not be capable of making the correct or logical decisions. 

Jury service;

Yup done that recently.  Not it's not a great system, I mean they had me on a jury!  But it is, as they say, the least bad option, and you are being judged by your peers.  Bear in mind that a judge can sack a jury that is incapable of coming to a sensible conclusion.

On the other hand the woman has to share some responsibility for allowing herself to get into this situation,  I was raised to believe that girls who would happily allow you to screw them within an hour or so of meeting them aren't exactly full of morals!  That’s doesn't mean she's not entitled to the protection of the law, that’s said we must all take responsibility for our own actions.  I don’t think she deserved it, no one does but she defiantly put herself at risk of such behaviour so in my book she's not helped herself and should share some of the responsibility.

Yup I know, girls that get drunk and sleep about are slags.  Guys that do it are studs, ladies men, womanisers, but the women are dirty  fucking whores.  How does that work.

[lew600fazer]

Do I sense a shift in opinion here.

Trial by jury I am refering too

I have been on the receiving end of British justice system.

Nearly 40 years ago I was out for a Sunday stroll along the sea front with my then wife were we where living at the time. Our 4 year old son wanted to go to the toilet. Bad parenting on my part I let him go into the loo on his own. I thought I heard him cry out so I went in and caught this cunt trying to get him into a cubical. Long story short, I completely lost it and if it had not been for passers by I probably would have killed him. Only thing stopped me getting time was he was a known sex offender.
I was still done for GBH and was given a suspended 3 month sentence and bound over to keep the peace for 12 months.
About 8 months later I was standing at a bus stop and there was girl at the stop obviously pregnant. Two gobshites started giving her a hard time. I told them to behave and leave the lass alone. One of them fancied himself as a hard case and decided to take it to the next level. I should have walked away but being in my 20's at the time fuck it. Police got involved we all got done for disorderly behaviour. The girl gave her account of what happened and said I was looking out for her.
I was advised that I was going to be prosecuted. As I had previous I was advised by a solicitor to go via the courts and not a magistrates court. Court were advised that I had previous for GBH and was bound over to keep the peace for 12 months. At no time was my solicitor allowed to say why I was bound over or did the court advise the reasons for the order. I was found guilty of affray, fined £45.00 £200 costs and sent down for 3 months as this was my 3 months suspended sentence. Risely and Walton jails are not very nice places to spend any time in. I was out after a month. I had lost my job, could not get work, nearly lost my home. I decided to go back to sea as it was the only place I could get work and I had a family to keep and mortgage to pay. To say this put a strain on my marriage, well we split after 18 months.
Two silly decisions nearly ruined my life. I should have been a good parent and went into the loo with my son. In those days though there did not appear to be the wierdos around then as are now. How many on here though would have walked away from the bus stop and left the lass with the two gobshites.

I do not really have a lot of faith in the British justice system. I had never been in trouble with the police before or since apart from an SP30 3 years ago.

I certainly am not comparing myself to Ched Evans but he made an error of judgement has done his stretch and deserves a break.

[VNA]

I certainly am not comparing myself to Ched Evans but he made an error of judgement has done his stretch and deserves a break.

Lew I hear what you are saying.  You are for once correct (can't find that prod smiley) - there is no comparison between you and Mr Evans

Take it easy old son.

And it's a bike forum Lew.  Talk bikes - the ones wi two wheels and an engine - ken?

Leave idiot Mr Evans to sort out his own life.

[Gnasher]

Yup I know, girls that get drunk and sleep about are slags.  Guys that do it are studs, ladies men, womanisers, but the women are dirty  fucking whores.  How does that work.

Not suggesting that at all.  As I've clearly said Ched and his mates are without doubt in the wrong hence he's been convicted he's mates appear to have got away with it!  It's not acceptable for men to think women are just objects to use as they see fit or to behave like "dirty fucking whores" to use your words, morals apply to each gender equally. 

My point is, we all have to take responsibility for our actions and this woman put herself at risk of being abused or in this case raped by individuals like Ched and he's mates, who clearly have little regard for woman or morals.  In my book prevention is better than cure, even though Ched is guilty of the crime, if she'd made better choices she wouldn't have been in a position that lead to her being taken advantage of, so she must take some of the responsibility.  That doesn’t mean the crime is any less or Ched should be let off he and the others should have known better but clearly this women has little regard for herself and a very low moral standards.

The old adage of "if you play with matches" springs to mind!

[darrsi]

Couldn't agree more - no blame should be apportioned to the girl- regardless of guilty or innocent she was taken advantage of at least and raped at worst. Getting hammered isn't a crime punishable by predators.

As I said in my last comment there are aspects which leave doubt in my mind, the lack of alcohol in her system despite the amnesia is odd.  For her to have been unconscious as a result of alcohol at 4 am to the point of being entirely alcohol free by 12 suggests she either has a very low tolerance for alcohol or was only as drunk as she said - tipsy.  If she had 6 pints at midnight there would be alcohol in her system until 5 pm. The most she can have had was 4 pints for her to be clear by twelve.  I have never met anyone who was unconscious after 4 pints. This issue was disregarded in the trial and evidence from a specialist wasn't considered at the appeal.  The whole thing revolves around how drunk she was.  Disinhibited and 'enthusiastic' as claimed by the defense or unconscious as claimed by the prosecution. Regardless of my doubts he has had his day in court and whilst the legal battle continues he isn't going to be cleared any day soon. 

As a sex offender he should expect prejudice - not always fair but then that goes with the territory - he put himself where he is.  There is no easy solution for him  but why should we care? ?
Consider a different case - Jeremy forrest the teacher who took his 15 year old pupil to France will be nearing release date - probably March this year.  Does anyone think it should be easy for him to get a job?

You're talking about alcohol as if it's the main reason for her her condition at the time.
If someone slipped the smallest amount of the drug GHB in her drink it could knock her out for a while and be completely undetectable in her system a day later!
I used to know someone who took it regularly at home who was badly injured and he'd sleep for 4 hours but it gave him the feeling he'd just had a deep sleep for 24 hours.
Alternatively, when given to someone else unknowingly it's used as a date rape drug.
It's totally nasty stuff that consists of paint thinners, so whoever created this shit was certainly a bit twisted.


I'm not suggesting this was definitely used but it could certainly explain a few things as far as this case is concerned.


It annoys me when the media constantly blame alcohol for the majority of crime in pubs and on the streets.
What they always fail to mention is the big possibility that drugs played a huge part as well, but that's not normally admitted by the guilty party, it's always "Sorry, i was a bit drunk." and everyone just believes them.
I like a drink down my local and can blatantly spot the difference between a genuinely drunk person, and a drunk but also coked up wanker.
The devils dandruff can turn the meekest personality into what i can only describe as a horrible c*nt, who would steal from their nan, lie compulsively and generally behave like a total arsehole yet if anything kicks off, normally started randomly by them, and the police get involved, then booze takes the blame again?
Like GHB, which is a totally fucked up substance, coke is also made from substances which really shouldn't be ingested.
Whoever thought it would be a good idea to shove cement powder mixed with gasoline up your hooter was obviously being very creative that day!  :think