Petrol prices

[VNA]

We all know we need to stop using fossil fuels. So when the major economies like China , Korea,India, America take a major step in the reduction of there use maybe I will give a foc.
Scotland should set the example in being at the fore front of sending us back into the dark ages and stop all oil and gas production.

Well a few years ago it was stated that 20% of the worlds population are responsible for 80% of the world's energy consumption in one year.  We already have frightening levels of global warming as a result of our OTT energy consumption.  Now the 80% want to consume what we the 20% consume.

The problem with society is we moan about causing the death of the planet,

This is of course one of the major barriers to solving the problem.  Save the planet, when the planet does not need saved.  The language is incorrect, we need to save ourselves.

Mass unemployment VNA predicts, well man has always found a way out of that dilema. We are well overdue a major world conflict so problem solved. There is no unemployment during a world war. Just think as well if we survive, the building industry will pickup , the DIY shops will be doing a roaring trade.

Of course the biggest problem in the world is over population.  But for religious and cultural reasons we don't want to talk about that.  A growing population = growing consumption.

Start ploughing the fields using horses again, hand sowing seeds , stick a cork up a cows arse to cut down on green house gases, oh we could bottle that and use it for cooking with? still that would be using a green house gas, so we can't do that then.

Those who develop the renewable energy systems and efficiency measures that we require will be the economic titans of the new world economy.  The problems are solvable, it's just a matter of when we decide to tackle the issues, ie will we do it in time - I personally doubt it, but I'll probably be dead or dying by the time all hell breaks loose.

Let's hope you get a decent summer in the UK at least you will be able to enjoy some of the cheap deals that will be available up in Scotland as the economy will have gone into meltdown.

Our economy is the strongest in the UK, sadly we have decided to keep it tied to the failing UK economy........for just now anyway.  All welcome in Scotland, spend as much as you want :lol

VNA take a happy pill for foc's sake.

Lew, you cannae toss bate about then get huffy with the response.

And do us a favour cut the racist crap eh?

[lew600fazer]

As mentioned take a fecking happy pill for focsake.  :z or perhaps get a sense of humour, bait ? or bate whatever. 

[VNA]

I'd have a giggle if you were funny Lew, but you ain't.

[VNA]

There is no doubt that it gos up instantly but slowly comes down but never as down as it should so when it gos up again its already starting from a higher point.

Indeed, but that's cos some of the tax is by % and some of it is flat rate.  So yeah the last time it was 60 dollars a barrel petrol might well have been something like 70p a litre.

Papers are saying we should see a 99p litre soon though as the cheap stuff comes through.

[lew600fazer]

read this link www.petrolprices.com/the-price-of-fuel.html looks as if it was November 2007 when Petrol went above £1.00 a litre.
As of March 2014 out of the 27 EU members Britain pays the highest tax on Diesel and the second highest on Petrol. Reckon if the price keeps falling Osborne might have a re-think on his proposed 3p?increase come the new year, he likely will use the low cost of fuel to push his increase even higher.
Oh and I see I have been told off by the oracle of the North to stop being racist.
This by a man who is a strong admirer of all things English. :finger

[fazed]

I'm not usually bothered by 'political' elements in threads as the last time anyone mind was changed by logical discussion was about never, we seem to have a view then look for evidence to support it and I think we all fall into that trap.....

However the level of almost hate of  the English in some quarters during the recent Scottish referendum with demonstration outside BBC studios because they dared to ask Alex Salmond question he didn'tlike/couldn't anwer had some pretty nasty undertones and I don't see Nicola Sturgeon saying that oil will solve all of Scotlands problems at $60 a barrel (BBC talks about the oil industry in scotland having all investment programmes cancelled as $60 p barrel make them all uneconomic and will result in thousands of job losses) the silence from NS is deafening...... 

Now is the time (I'd have thought) for the pro unionists to reinforce their view that we are all better off together - I certainly think (along with many others both in Scotland and the rest of the Nation) that the UK is greater than the sum of its parts and I seem to have liked most of the Scots that I've met - even the drunk Rugby fans (Have to say I was almost as tanked as they were!)  I think of us all  as British citizens with individual HISTORICAL heritages.  We've achieved far more togeher than we could have separately ask Napoleon, Kaiser Wilhelm,  Hitler etc as well as looking at the map of the English speaking world...    Well that's me done hope i haven't upset too many people - not my intention

Merry Xmas to all of us in the UK and to all discerning Fazer riders everywhere around the world !! 

[VNA]

However the level of almost hate of  the English in some quarters during the recent Scottish referendum with demonstration outside BBC studios because they dared to ask Alex Salmond question he didn'tlike/couldn't anwer had some pretty nasty undertones

You know the referendum campaign had been running for some two years in Scotland, without any protests of note outside the offices of the BBC or others.  The BBC is of course supposed to be (unlike the press) unbiased, and both BBC Scotland and STV worked hard to try and maintain impartiality. 

So the campaign rumbled on, largely unnoticed by the BBC down south and indeed much of the English press.  Naebody doon sooth was interestit. 

But then suddenly, it actually looked as if there was a chance, a real chance of a YES! vote.  In the closing weeks of campaign the BBC and other media outlets realised, that up until then unknown to them, that a referendum was actually taking place in Scotland on the future of the UK!  And that flaming eck, Scotland might just go her own way!

So yes the BBC despatched it's English correspondents to report on the events happening in that wee country in the North of the UK (Scotland) of which presumably they had heard of and read of in the biased English press.  Yup they made a right arse of it.  But there was worse.......

So the usually astute and intelligent Nick Robinson allowed himself to be used as a tool of the Westminster government.  He willingly posted a report on the BBC stating that Wee Eck refused to answer his question (repeatedly refused he told us), the BBC and Nick put together a brief clip depicting Alex refusing to answer a question, a question it turns out that Alex had already answered and indeed the BBC had already broadcast that answer.

So yes there was not only clear bias but also the dirtiest of dirty tricks. 

I didn't personally think the BBC protests were a great idea, but then it wasn't up to me or anybody else, tens of thousands of people across Scotland were absolutely raging at the BBC's coverage, not BBC Scotland but the clueless correspondents from London and their lying bosses who appeared to be taking orders from Westminster  .  So people gathered at the BBC and protested........and protested........

I myself buy The Independent Monday to Friday and Scottish papers at the weekend.  I got more and more pissed off at the Indy and it's clueless referendum  coverage, and in fact wrote a letter complaining about one journalists clueless and insulting commentary, and they then published my letter. 

In that letter I made the following point "xxxxxx  ponders if Alex Salmond is about to throw in the towel", a somewhat absurd suggestion to say the least, but putting aside the fact that Mr Salmond does not actually lead the YES Campaign (that's Blair Jenkins job), I would ask xxxx if she could tell us when Mr Salmond's counterpart, the Prime Minister of The United Kingdom, David Cameron, is going to get off the starting blocks in his defence of The Union.

In an e-mail exchange with the journalist, the journalist stated that they thought that Cameron had not and would not get involved because he was "too English"

Perhaps  here is a suggestion of racist Scots.    So I made the following point;

Oh, Cameron.  Yes he needs to keep his heid doon, I know.  Not because he's too English, as was not Tony Wedgwood Benn also rather English, somewhat posh and yet was always most warmly welcomed in Scotland.  David Cameron is not welcome in Scotland simply because he is a Tory.

Hey I still buy the Indy despite their abominable referendum coverage, though at least in today's edition their establishment commentator Andreas Whittam Smith makes the point that "The Scottish Referendum campaign was the practise of British democracy at it's best"

So lest be absolutely clear, the referendum campaign was about the future of Scotland, it's was about politics, it was about Scotland's political future, about a Scotland being continually dragged in a direction it does not want to go.  There was no English hatred, there is no English hatred and of course there is no evidence of English hatred in that whole campaign.  Oh and umm, not to mention that many of those whom I campaigned with were English born!

As for that Wee Eck and Nik Robinson moment, well watch and listen - make up your own mind;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHmLb-RIbrM#t=120

[fazed]

Hmmm....didn't mean to touch a raw nerve but ok I understand that a substantial MINORITY of the people of Scotland feel that they want separation of their part of the UK but in fairness the Celtic parts of the UK have far more autonomy than the Anglo Saxon bits already -  there is no English Parliament at all so perhaps we should  be looking at a Federal Uk with a shared head of state (unfortunately not elected - yet!) with a federal national assembly or parliament in an indissoluble union.  I always felt uncomfortable that only slightly over HALF of some 5 million or so out of 60 million could decide to end the UK as an entity and that doesn't particularly look like democracy at its best to me - perhaps the Devo Max option is a way ahead that could be good for everyone?.
In any I certainly value what Scotland and the Scots bring to the nation as a whole so I hope that Alex Salmonds ploy of having Scottish votes for English laws as a way of furthering the separatist agenda (as per todays concise i Independent seems to imply) doesn't set us one against another.  I think we've achieved so much together that to give it all away for a narrower perhaps more 'tribal' view of life serves no one well...

And I said I wasn't going to get drawn into debates as they seldom change views!! - so this is my last word on the subject as i've no wish to rub anyone up the wrong way or offend even unintentionally - its just that I value our nation as it is - but it could stand some change to make it even better! 
 

[VNA]

Hmmm....didn't mean to touch a raw nerve but ok I understand that a substantial MINORITY of the people of Scotland feel that they want separation of their part of the UK

No worries, I understand the point you make, but I feel it's based a dodgy agenda pushed by the anti-Scottish English press.  I don't think anybody can seriously find any meaningful evidence that there was a hated filled anti-English YES! campaign.

Yes a substantial minority that cannot be ignored, and a majority that are clearly dissatisfied making a further majority that are open in Scotland to the idea of another Indy referendum if Westminster does not deliver for Scotland.

but in fairness the Celtic parts of the UK have far more autonomy than the Anglo Saxon bits already -  there is no English Parliament at all so perhaps we should  be looking at a Federal Uk with a shared head of state (unfortunately not elected - yet!) with a federal national assembly or parliament in an indissoluble union.

David Cameron despite Alistair Darlings pleas not to (having done his job Alistair could now be pushed aside and ignored) within hours of the result being called turned  the Scottish Independence referendum into English votes for English laws.  Many of the majority who rejected Independence after that and of course more so following the publication of the Smith Report feel thoroughly conned.  Cameron played our referendum for cheap political points.

Devo max?  Westminster rejected the third option on the ballot paper, then against the rules of The Edinburgh Agreement reintroduced it in the closing stages of the referendum, only to withdraw it in the weeks post the referendum.

I think we've achieved so much together that to give it all away for a narrower perhaps more 'tribal' view of life serves no one well...

Indeed we have, but since 1979 we have spent decades throwing it away.  Nor is it tribal, YES is an inclusive civil justice movement, the only way we can achieve the society that we desire in Scotland is to leave the UK, unless that is there is revolutionary change in the rest of the UK, so Independence it's not a matter of if but when.  This is political not tribal or racial. 

And I said I wasn't going to get drawn into debates as they seldom change views!!

Of course debates change minds.  All we need to do is change another few % and it's gonna happen. 

so this is my last word on the subject as i've no wish to rub anyone up the wrong way or offend even unintentionally

No offence taken.  I think we had a fantastic referendum, the vast majority of people in Scotland engaged in the process, and despite the wild predictions of the English press (boy did they do their best to stirr it up) there was no racism, no trouble and no violence - with the exception of course of the certain loyalist thugs the day after the result. 

[lew600fazer]

Okay I brought this on myself,

But what has happened to the original debate about the price of petrol???

Would certainly hurt an independent Scotland.

Last thing I want to see is folk being put out of work.

[Millietant]

I really don't think any of the major oil companies will suffer in the long term - while the price of crude is less than half of what it was, the price of fuel for us has gone down less than 10%.


So who are the ones keeping the missing 40% - oh, that must be oil wholesalers - and well FOC me if they aren't all owned by the oil companies themselves.


Seriously, this is just a springboard to the future £2 a litre fuel cost in Europe. After all the oil companies crying wolf about plunging profits, despite pump prices coming down so much more slowly than crude prices, as soon as the crude price goes back up, you can bet pump prices will fly up immediately.


Don't think the current cheap prices are here to stay, the oil companies are used to playing the long game, and if we're all happy paying £1.20 a litre when oil is $60 a barrel (for a couple months), when it's back up to $120 a barrel our fuel will be over £2 a litre and the oil companies will be creaming it in again for another 10 years. The current situation is a drop in the ocean for these boys and an "investment" in much bigger, longer term, profits for the future.


Remember, when the pump prices go down slowly, but up quickly, there's only ever one winner.


My advice - enjoy it while you can, coz we're all gonna be FOC'd again in the future.

[VNA]

Okay I brought this on myself,

Aye :lol

Would certainly hurt an independent Scotland.

It's hurting the UK, and could inflict long term damage.

Maybe this has already been raised......

But the price of oil is controlled.  It's primarily controlled by the USA and Saudi.

Now we have been treating Russia with disrespect for the last couple of decades.  The big bear has been pushed into a corner.  It's come out fighting and taken Crimea and destabilised The Ukraine, and of course committed the crime of shooting down a Western Commercial flight.  Pretty crazy scary stuff.

So perhaps the USA and Saudi are bringing the bear to it's knees.  In the process Scottish oil might well be wiped out and the UK economy utterly wrecked, or maybe there are contingency plans to protect key allies.

But don't forget what happens when you keep pushing the bear into that corner.  Russia is a power, a nuclear power to be reckoned with.

Just a wee thought.

[VNA]

when it's back up to $120 a barrel our fuel will be over £2 a litre and the oil companies will be creaming it in again for another 10 years.

How does that figure?

[JoeRock]

Okay I brought this on myself,

Aye :lol

Would certainly hurt an independent Scotland.

It's hurting the UK, and could inflict long term damage.

Maybe this has already been raised......

But the price of oil is controlled.  It's primarily controlled by the USA and Saudi.

Now we have been treating Russia with disrespect for the last couple of decades.  The big bear has been pushed into a corner.  It's come out fighting and taken Crimea and destabilised The Ukraine, and of course committed the crime of shooting down a Western Commercial flight.  Pretty crazy scary stuff.

So perhaps the USA and Saudi are bringing the bear to it's knees.  In the process Scottish oil might well be wiped out and the UK economy utterly wrecked, or maybe there are contingency plans to protect key allies.

But don't forget what happens when you keep pushing the bear into that corner.  Russia is a power, a nuclear power to be reckoned with.

Just a wee thought.

You do know the UK is a net importer of oil right? Therefore if the price drops low, we'll save money (at least on oil) as we can just buy it cheaper than we can make it?

[JoeRock]

I really don't think any of the major oil companies will suffer in the long term - while the price of crude is less than half of what it was, the price of fuel for us has gone down less than 10%.

And the sole reason for that is because the vast amount that we pay on fuel isn't the cost of fuel, its in tax!

[VNA]

You do know the UK is a net importer of oil right? Therefore if the price drops low, we'll save money (at least on oil) as we can just buy it cheaper than we can make it?

So where does Osborne get all those billions of quids worth of north sea oil tax he will lose.  What do we do with the 10,000's out of work when our oil industry shuts down.

So Joe do you take my point that the price is controlled?

And if so, why has it been dropped to 60 dollars a barrel.

Is there a new cold war, and the latest weapon is oil. 

[lew600fazer]

The only thing I brought on myself was you getting on your soap box again talking a load of shite about scottish independance.

Scotland would be up shite creek now without a paddle, go on have a referendum now and see how it would pan out.

[slappy]

The only thing I brought on myself was you getting on your soap box again talking a load of shite about scottish independance.

Scotland would be up shite creek now without a paddle, go on have a referendum now and see how it would pan out.

Please lew, stop poking vna for focs sake, I am sick of hearing about Scotland from him, and as I was born in Ayrshire that takes some doing.

[VNA]

The only thing I brought on myself was you getting on your soap box again talking a load of shite about scottish independance.

Yes you started it Lew, and seeing as you are unable to address the substance of the debate, well it appears I finished it.

Got anything constructive to say Lew.........................

[noggythenog]

I think the off shore industry is just jumping on the bandwagon here about oh dear hard times bla bla bla.......my heart bleeds purple piss for them.


It will just be an excuse to trim off a bit of excess festive fat that's all.......less perks, wage freezes, cheaper pies in the canteen.


Big companies love shit like this happening because then it justifies anything without them being directly blamed......"oh sorry boys, no bonus this year because we're below budget" and then pleading poverty......well they managed to still make billions the last time oil was this low.....sure as foc they will now......what they mean is below budget and not as much as they'd "like" to make.........well....i sure would like a 10% wage rise this year but i wont get it....just because i dont get it doesnt instantly mean that i am skint....far from it.


& who cares.....the oil will still be there....... Then eventually it will come to the surface whether it is this genaration or the next that brings it up.