Gender discrimination

[Slaninar]

Gary, from an very popular old tv show called " Only Fools and Horses".


https://youtu.be/OuV86BFIsHc

That's the pronunciation! Spot on!    :rollin

[VNA]

In THIS country (UK) I think the biggest issue (threat) are the "ethnic minorities".
They are coming here planting their seed, pushing their (third world) religions, then screaming racist when one of us "white" people criticise.

At this point I really don’t think you need to be from an ethnic minority background to be screaming racist EDL supporting fuck pig! :eek

It also depends a lot on the number (and percentage) of "incomers", as well as how you integrate them into society.

Slaninar, what chance has any immigrant to England got of ‘integrating’ when extremist views, such as those held by focced off are widely held, and indeed are not immediately questioned. 
Such racist, frankly fascist views surely have no place on this forum.

[VNA]

1. "Do you hate/dislike Muslims"?
2. "Would you mind your daughter marrying a Muslim?"
And see the number of people answering with no, then yes.  [img alt=]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/smile.gif[/img]

I don’t have a daughter.  But if I did and such a situation occured, well, yes I would be worried about my daughter marrying a practising Muslim.  Of course I would.  Just as I would be worried about my daughter marrying practising Christian.  So I’m not sure what the point of such a question is.  Or is it just a loaded question to try and justify a racist stand point? 

[Slaninar]

1. "Do you hate/dislike Muslims"?
2. "Would you mind your daughter marrying a Muslim?"
And see the number of people answering with no, then yes.  [img alt=]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/smile.gif[/img]

I don’t have a daughter.  But if I did and such a situation occured, well, yes I would be worried about my daughter marrying a practising Muslim.  Of course I would.  Just as I would be worried about my daughter marrying practising Christian.  So I’m not sure what the point of such a question is.  Or is it just a loaded question to try and justify a racist stand point?

The point is that discrimination often comes from prejudice, which people naturally have - even if they are not aware they do. My sister did a sociology test, where the term gypsy was used - and many people who answered the other questions in a "non-racist" pattern "failed" the daughter question. People who claim they have nothing against gypsies. For example.

[YamFazFan]

It's like all this anti-Semitism that's around Labour at the moment.

Awful.

[tommyardin]

[size=1em]Discrimination is a word that often gets used wrongly, we all discriminate most days of our lives.[/size]
[size=1em]We discriminate between right and wrong (as we see or understand it)[/size]

[size=1em]Discernment or telling the difference between one thing and another is discrimination.[/size]
[size=1em]People can discriminate between facial expressions of others, telling the difference between an angry or happy look is discrimination or discernment if you wish.[/size]

[size=1em]I don't think I hate anyone in life, how can I hate someone of a different religion? or just because they believe something different than me. [/size]

[size=1em]What I can do is hate the actions and choices of others if it damages or impacts on others in a negative way.[/size]

[size=1em]How can I hate Muslims when I have not really met many.[/size]
[size=1em]I can hate the ideology of a Muslim extremist if it hurts, kills or takes away the freedom of choice or speech.[/size]

[size=1em]I recall once being utterly and totally lost in an area of Birmingham called Saltley, it late at night (11-30ish)I was on foot, and have to admit to being more than wary of the area I was in, a very much Muslim area that I had heard stuff about on the TV that reinforced my fears.[/size]

[size=1em]I had wandered off the main area of the main busy street and tried to back track only to find myself more and more confused, in the darkness I saw some coloured lights over a back doorway and decided to knock hoping to find a friendly face who could point me back to the busier parts of Saltley.[/size]
[size=1em]The door way opened and I was in view of four Asian guys each of them would have made almost two of me (They were big lads) I told one my plight and he came out started his car and switched on his Taxi sign on the roof, told me to sit in the front and he chatted to me as he drove me to 'The Bullring' an area of Birmingham that I was trying to get to, he shook my hand and wished me well, said 'no charge' and drove off. [/size]

[size=1em]How can anyone say they hate Muslims, this giant of a man had a kind heart, sure he was different to me but he was a kind human being that took sympathy on my plight and did something about it.[/size]

[size=1em]Do I discriminate negatively against Muslims? of course not, but I do discriminate against any extremists that wish to impose their ways on others, what-ever background they are from, whether race, colour, creed, religious belief. It could be in the workplace or in the street.[/size]

[size=1em]But as said earlier we all discriminate, but we should not blanket discriminate in a negative way about a section of society or individual that we do not know.[/size]

[size=1em]Positive discrimination is good and healthy and wise.[/size]
[size=1em]Negative discrimination is bad unhealthy and stupid. [/size]

[size=1em]I could have formed an negative impression about my taxi driver Samaritan, If I had it would not have been further from the truth.[/size]

[size=1em]We all have opinions, some we hold dear, some not so much, but if those opinion or ideologies impact others in a negative way, then we are extremist our selves. [/size]
[size=1em]Here endeth the lesson for today    .[/size]

[size=1em]BMW car divers should all be discriminated against, it is the only exception to the rule[/size] :eek

[VNA]

It's like all this anti-Semitism that's around Labour at the moment.

Awful.

Labour needs to get smarter on 'anti-Semitism', and it needs to get quicker.  As what we are seeing is the well-funded and organised pro-Israeli Zionist lobbyists tearing Labour to shreds right now.  Also, the UK right wing press are running with this big time, they will jump at any opportunity to smear and discredit Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour left. 



‘Anti-Semitism’ is not a major issue in the Labour party.


What is hugely sinister is the lack of outcry from our government, and indeed certain other Western governments, over the deaths of 16 Palestinians at the Gaza Israel border.  Of course, we are not far from the point that criticism of Israeli soldiers murdering Palestinian protestors will be classed as ‘anti-Semitic’.

[VNA]

[size=1em]I recall once being utterly and totally lost in an area of Birmingham called Saltley, it late at night (11-30ish)I was on foot, and have to admit to being more than wary of the area I was in, a very much Muslim area that I had heard stuff about on the TV that reinforced my fears.

I had wandered off the main area of the main busy street and tried to back track only to find myself more and more confused, in the darkness I saw some coloured lights over a back doorway and decided to knock hoping to find a friendly face who could point me back to the busier parts of Saltley.
The door way opened and I was in view of four Asian guys each of them would have made almost two of me (They were big lads) I told one my plight and he came out started his car and switched on his Taxi sign on the roof, told me to sit in the front and he chatted to me as he drove me to 'The Bullring' an area of Birmingham that I was trying to get to, he shook my hand and wished me well, said 'no charge' and drove off.

How can anyone say they hate Muslims, this giant of a man had a kind heart, sure he was different to me but he was a kind human being that took sympathy on my plight and did something about it.[/size]

[size=1em]


How did you know he was a muslim?[/size]

[Slaninar]

[size=1em]But as said earlier we all discriminate, but we should not blanket discriminate in a negative way about a section of society or individual that we do not know.[/size]

[size=1em]Positive discrimination is good and healthy and wise.[/size]
[size=1em]Negative discrimination is bad unhealthy and stupid. [/size]

Agree, but not completely. Discrimination is an important survival tool. I'll talk from my background and country (know that best and fewer foccers could get offended   ).

When I wear colours of my football club, and see a group of Red Star (or Partizan) Belgrade supporters, I can expect to get beat up. It's pure prejudice - not all the supporters would bother, want to, nor agree to go into N to one fight, but significant portion of them are.

Same goes for gypsies - at least in my city. You don't want to leave things not very well locked in their neighbourhood. However racist it may sound, in equally poor parts of the city with population of white people, the crime rate is lower.

I've had some experience with Swiss people. First thing that struck me was how "naive" they were - even the obviously intelligent and university educated people. Then I had realized: those people come from a country where no one tries to trick you (at least the standard Serbian tricks, like charging double to foreigners who don't know the prices, selling faulty goods as good, avoiding taxes etc...).  Had they stayed here long enough, I'm sure they would have quickly caught on.

Another example is the police. They have to guess what can be expected of a person and how to approach them the first time they see them. Good, experienced cops often judge that very quickly. They are among the most prejudiced people you can find, but the prejudice is (at least with the competent ones) based on lots of experience.


Not sure how much role is played by society, background, how much is down to genes - but there are certain group traits that can be expected - until proven otherwise, at least that's the way I see it. The main problem, IMO, is when one is not aware of their prejudice and can't let go, even when they get to know the concrete person they interact with.


In my country there have been (civil?) wars and lots of hatred in the past few decades. Hungarian minority in my city has been opressed (not as much as Croats and Muslims in other parts of the country, but not nice). I have always been against that (went to lots of anti-government protests - whatever could be done, whatever the risk). On (more than) one occasion I sat at a "Hungarian" cafe with a Hungarian friend. After some chat, a girl had asked for my name. One of the people said out loud "that's a Serbian name!?!" Most were very reluctant to even talk to me afterwards. Works similarly the other way round - once some guys had started hustling a friend for "speaking in Hungarian" - after I had stepped in it was like "oh, they're with you - you're one of ours - no problems" and they left.

Most people like to be treated well. With respect. Most expect that. When encountering rude situations (like from the previous passage) - those are the things they tend to talk about with their friends. No one will bother to mention: "I was treated normally". But the bad stories are told over and over. That deepens hatred and the prejudice. And it's often rooted in true, first hand experience.

It's a difficult thing to be wise about IMO. What is good, what is bad prejudice/discrimination? I was raised to judge people on what they do. Not on what they say, even less based on their colour/religion etc. Still - if I were given a choice: for an hour, in my garage, would you rather leave a gypsy, or a swiss alone - both of them you've never seen/met before, you know nothing else - I'd go with the swiss. As for drinking - bosnians, or scotts. 

As for the gender discrimination - I don't see that women are discriminated for being women - as if people don't like that fact. What is the case is they often (majority, or at least a large enough percentage of women) tend to put family first. People expect that from a female worker even at the job interview. When/if they get hired, I'm yet to see a hard working woman not being paid more than less hard working man. At least in my city.

[tommyardin]

[size=1em]I recall once being utterly and totally lost in an area of Birmingham called Saltley, it late at night (11-30ish)I was on foot, and have to admit to being more than wary of the area I was in, a very much Muslim area that I had heard stuff about on the TV that reinforced my fears.

I had wandered off the main area of the main busy street and tried to back track only to find myself more and more confused, in the darkness I saw some coloured lights over a back doorway and decided to knock hoping to find a friendly face who could point me back to the busier parts of Saltley.
The door way opened and I was in view of four Asian guys each of them would have made almost two of me (They were big lads) I told one my plight and he came out started his car and switched on his Taxi sign on the roof, told me to sit in the front and he chatted to me as he drove me to 'The Bullring' an area of Birmingham that I was trying to get to, he shook my hand and wished me well, said 'no charge' and drove off.

How can anyone say they hate Muslims, this giant of a man had a kind heart, sure he was different to me but he was a kind human being that took sympathy on my plight and did something about it.[/size]

[size=1em]


How did you know he was a muslim?[/size]

Because we chatted about as he drove me to 'The Bullring'.
I explained that I was quite worried about being lost in Saltley as it had quite a bit of bad press, he laughed and said that not all Muslims are extremist and fundamentalists and that a lot of second generation Muslims were very moderate.

[VNA]

he laughed and said that not all Muslims are extremist and fundamentalists and that a lot of second generation Muslims were very moderate.

What!  Presumably he was taking the piss. :lol  Or did you just make that up?

[VNA]

Interesting observations Slaninar.

Same goes for gypsies - at least in my city. You don't want to leave things not very well locked in their neighbourhood. However racist it may sound, in equally poor parts of the city with population of white people, the crime rate is lower.

But then the white people haven’t suffered from the, what is basically state sponsored discrimination, right across eastern Europe, that the Roma have. 

Another example is the police. They have to guess what can be expected of a person and how to approach them the first time they see them. Good, experienced cops often judge that very quickly. They are among the most prejudiced people you can find, but the prejudice is (at least with the competent ones) based on lots of experience.

But then in Scotland the only MSP’s (members of the Scottish Parliament) to have been stopped and searched by the police just so happen to be Asian.  Something is wrong there, surely?

[tommyardin]

he laughed and said that not all Muslims are extremist and fundamentalists and that a lot of second generation Muslims were very moderate.

What!  Presumably he was taking the piss. :lol  Or did you just make that up?

VNA go fuck yourself.


What the fuck do you know about conversation that I have had with people during my life.
You seem to think you are all knowing about everything, I would appreciate it in future if you just shut the fuck up and not comment on anything that I put into post in here.
You think that the guy was either taking the piss or that I an lying, what the fuck do you know you twat. 

[Slaninar]

But then the white people haven’t suffered from the, what is basically state sponsored discrimination, right across eastern Europe, that the Roma have. 

When dealing with people, you can't undo the past. My country has had sanctions, wars, bombings and economic breakdown recently, but that doesn't change the fact that you're a lot more likely to get mugged now, than 30 years ago. It also doesn't help when buying a 2nd hand car - you can be certain the mileage is rewinded back (all the motorcycles sold here have 30.000 kms - even the 20+ year old ones!).

But then in Scotland the only MSP’s (members of the Scottish Parliament) to have been stopped and searched by the police just so happen to be Asian.  Something is wrong there, surely?

My hair is now short, but when I was in early 20s, it was long - and it grew like Bob Marley's - literally, all curves and upwards. On a Montenegrin seaside resort, I was stopped two nights in a row and searched for drugs by the police - along with an also long haired (male) friend. The third time, I had politely asked the policemen why my friend and I seem to be the only ones stopped and searched - two nights in a row. I said we're not doing anything illegal, we're not drunk, what the problem is with us? The policemen politely explained, trying not to be rude: see what you look like? Do you see any other people with such hairs and clothing? Who would you first stop and search for marihuana in this street if you were in my place? We laughed. They said they'll talk with their coleagues not to bother us any more.

Not that there aren't idiots and racists among the police. Just that sometimes prejudice is all you can "work" with, if you understand what I mean.

[VNA]

VNA go fuck yourself.


What the fuck do you know about conversation that I have had with people during my life.
You seem to think you are all knowing about everything, I would appreciate it in future if you just shut the fuck up and not comment on anything that I put into post in here.
You think that the guy was either taking the piss or that I an lying, what the fuck do you know you twat. 

Charming! :lol :lol :lol  Before I read your latest post, I did check the date, and thought, shit, it's April the 1st.  Fucking tommyyardin's just ripped me big time.  But nope, it looks like your friendly cab driver was ripping the shit out of you after all.

[tommyardin]

VNA go fuck yourself.


What the fuck do you know about conversation that I have had with people during my life.
You seem to think you are all knowing about everything, I would appreciate it in future if you just shut the fuck up and not comment on anything that I put into post in here.
You think that the guy was either taking the piss or that I an lying, what the fuck do you know you twat. 

Charming! :lol :lol :lol  Before I read your latest post, I did check the date, and thought, shit, it's April the 1st.  Fucking tommyyardin's just ripped me big time.  But nope, it looks like your friendly cab driver was ripping the shit out of you after all.

[size=1em]Your last response underlines that fact that you believe nothing anyone says, and think you know every thing about everyone and their motives, which just underlines that you are even a bigger cunt than I at first thought you were. Goes to show that I was wrong. [/size]

[size=1em]First you say it was all a lie,then you say he was 'Ripping the shit out of me' how was he ripping the shit out of me? The guy went out of his way to help me with no cost to me at all, but it had a cost to him. I don't understand your thinking. [/size]
[size=1em]Anyway VNA hush I have no wish to hear or read anymore [/size]rhetoric[size=1em] that pours like vomit out of your mouth.[/size]

[VNA]

My hair is now short, but when I was in early 20s, it was long - and it grew like Bob Marley's - literally, all curves and upwards. On a Montenegrin seaside resort, I was stopped two nights in a row and searched for drugs by the police - along with an also long haired (male) friend.

In 2006 I was in Albania for a week.  I had long blonde hair, hadn’t had a haircut in ten years, tied back in a pony tail.  The first morning there I got up early.  Nobody else I was with was up, so I headed out for a walk, carrying my SLR camera.  The hotel was pretty nice, but the busy street outside had no tarmac.  But what I found was everybody stared at me, I mean really fucking stared.  It was pretty unnerving and I stuffed my camera under my jacket fearing the worst.  After just over half an hour I headed back to the hotel.  One of the folks I was with explained, that well obviously I looked different (very white – long blonde hair) and that in the Balkans it’s generally not considered rude to stare.  He told me just to smile and say hello.  Then the scary menacing starring people started smiling and saying hello back. 

[tommyardin]

My hair is now short, but when I was in early 20s, it was long - and it grew like Bob Marley's - literally, all curves and upwards. On a Montenegrin seaside resort, I was stopped two nights in a row and searched for drugs by the police - along with an also long haired (male) friend.

In 2006 I was in Albania for a week.  I had long blonde hair, hadn’t had a haircut in ten years, tied back in a pony tail.  The first morning there I got up early.  Nobody else I was with was up, so I headed out for a walk, carrying my SLR camera.  The hotel was pretty nice, but the busy street outside had no tarmac.  But what I found was everybody stared at me, I mean really fucking stared.  It was pretty unnerving and I stuffed my camera under my jacket fearing the worst.  After just over half an hour I headed back to the hotel.  One of the folks I was with explained, that well obviously I looked different (very white – long blonde hair) and that in the Balkans it’s generally not considered rude to stare.  He told me just to smile and say hello.  Then the scary menacing starring people started smiling and saying hello back.

What a load of crap that person that was with you was just 'Ripping the shit out of you' they were thinking to themselves that is a strange looking cunt with long blond hair, perhaps we should give him a lift and not charge him, that will get him off the road.  :finger

[VNA]

[size=1em]First you say it was all a lie,then you say he was 'Ripping the shit out of me' how was he ripping the shit out of me? The guy went out of his way to help me with no cost to me at all, but it had a cost to him. I don't understand your thinking. [/size]

[size=1em]


You are over thinking it Tommy.  Ripping the shit out of you, pulling your leg, as in humour, maybe a wee bit of mild scarcasm.  Suttle humour mocking your [/size]prejudice, but it sailed right over the top of your heid.


Talking of marijuana, have a smoke man, chill out.

[mtread]

Boys boys boys! You both agree that it's wrong to  discriminate and make assumptions based on prejudice, and that people are individuals and not 'all the same'. So calm down. Anyway, the cab driver was probably worried about driving you to the Bullring, because last time it was blown up by white terrorists.....