EU!

[fazersharp]

[quote author=VNA link=topic=20295.msg234356#msg234356 date=1466021981]

You can also bet that in or out the EU will reform significantly over the next few years, that is if the EU wants to survive.  The EU is in danger of collaspsing and it knows it. 

We can only hope that if it is a stay vote that the shock of almost leaving will of given the EU a good enough kick up the arse to make some significant changes.
I get the impression from the rest of europe that they just dont like us much, where are all the leaders saying please UK dont leave we value your input you are a wonderful nation and enrich the whole of the eu with your sense of right and your kindness and loving values. They are missing a trick there and instead of threatening saying we wont give you trade deals they could be wooing us to stay.   
[/quote]

[Val]

meanwhile in Wales  :rollin

[fazersharp]

meanwhile in Wales  :rollin

I dont know which is the funnier - the spray job or that fellas sense of dress, checks and floral never go

[mtread]

The way the polls are reading, whichever way the vote goes it looks like 51% of the population are going to be smug and 49% are going to be pissed off. It will then fester for some considerable time while everybody carries on arguing about it. 

[Exupnut]

meanwhile in Wales  :rollin

GENIUS POST!!!! Hahahahahaa brilliant. Flippin needed that hehe...the polls are aswaying......got question time on now....

[BIG MAC]

Cadbury moved production of several brands to a factory in Poland 2011 with EU grant. Despite promising the workforce they would not. That's the EU'S fault or Cadburys? (Who 'owns Cadburys)
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant. (Turkey isn't in the EU- Turks build Ford Transits cheaper with less strikes)
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds. They have not yet said what UK plants will lose out. (And TATAs inability to compete effectively is the EU'S fault - or hey  why don't they make the stuff in India..Chinese manage to make it in China!
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant. That move was not wanted by Peugeot, it was forced on them by EU blundering and cost then dearly. The EU of course said 'Dear PCT you must move your expensive operation somewhere cheaper or else)
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in Spain using Swedish steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales. (Just assembly)
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan. (I didn't believe this till I checked Financial Times) The British Army may be able to afford two of them - The British Army is bringing back tonnes of steel from Germany ..I think the point here is that a part of the EU is manufacturing military hardware..big deal..do the Spanish get pissy about French missiles assembled in the UK then?
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200. So a business survives by relocating to where labour costs are sensible..what a bloody crazy idea.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan. The far east is where clothes get made- in sweat shops and bought by British People...all the EU's fault durrr
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants. When was the last time you spent your pocket money on a plastic model? Kids don't want them..period
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant. So it appears that businesses that want to make a profit can locate their manufacturing base where it works for them..and within the EU..all that's being said is that business is business..wonder how thise cheeky Slovaks can compete WITHIN THE SAME RULES
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant. Have you ever been to Greenock? I have..
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant. EU seems to be just the ticket for subsidies to British industry - pity the workforce cant compete
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding. Moving ones manufacturing closer to market..wow how green, how efficient..
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing. Its an Italian company! BTW why not squinny about Dyson just because they brought part of their operation back is that forgivable..Its just business in a global economy
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs AKZO Coatings (SIkkens by another name) are a quality product and know what they are doing., They acquire a competitor and are then expected to compete with themselves? get reaL
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase. (Now sold on again) The EU isn't responsible for Hapless George and his failure to tackle corporate tax avoidance
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry. (Joint CEOs charged with financial trading fraud, insider trading) A crime is a crime..I think your said these people committed a fraud using EU funds and are being prosecuted ..hardly the EUs fault other than due diligence needs to be carried out and there are areas where the EU must be slimmed and made more accountable. Ian Duncan Smith would sort that kind of sleazy stuff out presumably? pardon me I think I just wet myself
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company. Hmm Rolls Royce are owned by the Jerries ..lets not piss our partners off would seem a good idea rather than bemoaning their business acumen and ability
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company. Hoots Mac Manuel..stop buying their electricity at once..make your own..(jeez)
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies. Bloody hell..didn't know that..they did seem freakishly reliable
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online. Hmm Bloody EU power stations we should be getting BNFL and Barrat to build a proper British one...except..err ..WE ARE SKINT
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada. New trains contract awarded to German company. Yes Siemens do make an efficient product and have an understanding of Market forces..wasn't aware Canada was in the EU
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU - So we are good and inventing things and selling them on..I think you said the British inventing industry thrives within the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria and those parts assembled in the UK. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently. What a great example of a quality product manufactured globally and assembled in Britain-rather than China..well done..was that the incorrect answer.
Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations. No we don't engage in non profit making activity and have ceased to be competitive in many. It is therefore down to us to innovate and capture market share in specialisations..Ladies and Gentlemen I give you Formula one and motorsport in general..technology and engineering in large part..English.
Yes some companies are in the UK with EU funding, but have you noticed that many, like Tata, are planning to shift the production away again, as soon as they will not have to pay a penalty to the EU for doing so. Hundreds already did, just using British skills to develop products and then opt for lower labour costs, often with a serious loss in quality too like Bosch alternators. Many employ staff only on a part-time basis, minimum wage and even those sent by DWP to work for nothing, those get just their benefits. Again the mantra of 'The World owes us a living' no it doesn't and as for the vile DWP..A Tory monstrosity..not an EU one
I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there. Okay..I wont remind you that in the 16th Century Glasgow was a Salmon Fishery..and there are Salmon running in the Clyde again..bloody EU responsible for fishery protection and environmental laws. In typical Scottish efficieny mode we are now selling deep fried in batter  two headed salmon in down town Possilpark ..Thank you Royal Navy and your radioactive leaks
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany. Ohh dear Asset stripping - who gets the money- who lets it happen? Hmm yes YOUR ELECTED GOVT..stop confusing the two. Immigration yeah..Vote Leave...you will want to when the Gendarmes are helping ISIS onto the Dover Ferry
The way companies abuse the EU commercial assistance system is not doing the EU, Britain or any other country any favours. It has massive loopholes that are simply exploited and no-one in Brussels has the wit nor sense to change it. Change in the EU is slow at best and in most cases, next to impossible due to the intense lobbying by companies with a vested interest in abusing this very broken system. I know Margaret Thatcher was not many people's favourite person, but she did get a number of measures agreed that have now been completely eroded and sadly, by her own party. Mr Junker has said that any more 'special status' for Britain will be difficult and will face legal challenges. In other words, we will not get most of them, if any.
If the EU may break up in the event of Britain voting to leave as suggested by both leaders of the Bundesbank and European Central Bank, then in all honesty, we have as a nation been propping up a failed system for too long, It will probably fail anyway, taking anyone still 'in' with it. Thus, this vote you have is not exactly 'remain' or 'leave', it is more an issue of jumping off the sinking ship while we have a chance to swim ashore now, or waiting till it is in really deep water and going down with it.
Cor Blimey a massive rant which boils down to the UK needs to have effective domestic Government and Governance..The SNP have a solution..pity the rUK isn't equally industrious and imaginative
Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,
1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party. Because I don't vote for them..never will but would want to be part of a Europe where I did vote for representatives and could hold their performance to account at the ballot - all of them..the only way to achieve this is to be fully engaged and grown up..instead of saying 'The big boys made me do it'
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down. Yet businesses do survive and flourish if they engage with the system and commit to operating efficiently
No - businesses can and do survive- prosper/ You don't think it matters.[/size]
Well what a load of bilious bollocks that was..NEXT

[Bretty]

I've heard that if we stay in they will have us all driving on the right hand side of the road!

...apparently phasing this in with the lorries and coaches first!  :rollin :lol :rollin :lol

[YamFazFan]

I'm really grateful that so many actors, musicians, film/telly stars and celebrities have spoken out in favour of staying in.

It sure has helped me make my mind up on the issue :thumbup

[joebloggs]

Apparently Alf Garnet shot some MP trying to get his point across..........

[NorthWestern]

Didn't she die this afternoon?

Intentionally left blank

[joebloggs]

I have a terrible sense of humour

Sorry

[VNA]

On a pedantic note, NI isn't in Great Britain, it's in 'The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland'.

I stand corrected mtread.

Cadbury moved production of several brands to a factory in Poland 2011 with EU grant. Despite promising the workforce they would not.

Cadbury was sold to Mondelez International, which used to be known as Kraft Foods.  Yes big corporations lie, and we let them away with it all the time.  But the EU didn't sell it.

Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds. They have not yet said what UK plants will lose out.

Yup Tata don't give a fuck, we sold out to them and let them screw us.  But it wasn't the EU that screwed us.

Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.

We attracted loads of companies to Scotland with grants and bribes, Greenock was known as silicone glen, but they have all done the dirty and fucked off.  But it wasn't the EU that moved them out.

Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.

Pretty much our whole electrical infrastructure has been sold to foreign companies.  We now rely on those companies to invest in our infrastructure.  Our essential infrastructure is owned by foreign companies whose priority is making a profit and getting it out of the country.  It seems like we’ll be importing more and more electricity via the international super grid as we wait for foreign states to invest and provide us with new power stations.  It’s national economic suicide.  And it's how dumb we are.

You know workers in the power industry were told that the national power companies were inefficient (they were not) and the market required competition, so they got sold off.  It was called privatisation.  Yet most of our power industry in now owned by foreign states.  Yes our power industry is state owned again, just the wrong states that’s all.  And the monopolies are bigger than ever.

But at the end of the day many EU countries kept their state industuries.  That we have messed up big time has nothing to do with the EU.

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK.

But you see that’s my point.  We have not been asset stripped by the EU.  That’s nonsense.  We have been asset stripped by the Tory Government from 1979 onwards.  And of course Tony Blair was Margaret Thatcher’s greatest ever success, New Labour were the New Tories and they continued the privatisation, asset stripping, PPP and selling our essential infrastructure abroad, even getting our social services delivered by profit prioritising foreign companies.
It’s our own successive governments that have screwed us.  But we seem to be too stupid to see it, and hey it’s so much easier just to blame Johnny Foreigner and the EU.  People are rightly angry and pissed off, but they are being mugged again as opportunists like Boris and Nigel pull the wool over their eyes and get them to blame the EU. 

the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany. Ohh dear Asset stripping - who gets the money- who lets it happen? Hmm yes YOUR ELECTED GOVT..stop confusing the two. Immigration yeah..Vote Leave...you will want to when the Gendarmes are helping ISIS onto the Dover Ferry

Yup Boris, Nigel and others push this nonsense and folks soak it up.  Our armed forces being passed to Brussels? – what can I say – bollocks.  And how is little Britain going to fight ISIS alone – yeah bollocks.  And don’t forget we were a big part of creating ISIS not the EU, the bulk of the EU had the sense to see GW Bush and Tony Blair for what they are.

Cor Blimey a massive rant which boils down to the UK needs to have effective domestic Government and Governance

Indeed.  And yes.  But do you really think leaving the EU will make one blind bit of difference in respect to your rant?  All it will mean is we will have pulled out of the biggest trading block in the world.  All the stuff you are complaining about will keep on happening meanwhile we’ll be begging a pissed off EU to give us access to their markets.  The pound will go down the tubes, our weak economy will be weakened further and our pensions will be up the swanny.  And do you think Boris and Nigel will give a fuck?  Naw they’ll be too busy doing what they always do, lining their own pockets and furthering their careers. 

The SNP have a solution pity the rUK isn't equally industrious and imaginative

Because the SNP are making something of an attempt to govern in the interests of the people, rather than as at Westminster in their own personal interests.  The EU isn’t a problem for Scotland, it’s the fucking shitty Westminster governments that are. 
So no I’m not buying all the BREXIT shit, leaving the EU won’t solve a darn thing, it’s only gonna give us a whole new set of problems.

So on the 23rd June we all need to vote REMAIN. 

[taylor]

I am voting out, mac you just confirmed my feelings.  strange question I know  I wonder how many people would vote out if it guaranteed us sunshine.

[BIG MAC]

I am voting out, mac you just confirmed my feelings.  strange question I know  I wonder how many people would vote out if it guaranteed us sunshine.

I am pleased I confirmed your feelings..presumably you are feeling bonkers and want to live in a leper colony ruled by the extreme right wing and with no tangible assets

[taylor]

yes going to sell my house hide my money and live in my carafan, while claiming state benefits .      I could claim racism being welsh that my brain has been affected by years of abuse from the English government .    and having to work in Bristol with so many foreign people ,  my second  tongue it not English no more it is polish and albianean ,    asta la vista babies,

[BIG MAC]

Welsh = 'Wenglish' or 'Western English' sorry mate you can't claim racism as they don't discriminate against you..they own you. :-)

[joebloggs]

We had letters handed out at work re our companies stance on the EU. How it believes we should remain, stating we should consider this when voting in the referendum

Most went straight in the bin

[Oldgit]

BM is a big Labour supporter then.

[fazersharp]

What bugs me is that "stayers" that say oh we get this grant and that funding and what ever else money to do whatever else, but the thing is its our chuffing money in the first place that they are sending back after we have put out our begging bowl for it. Also of course only after it has been through various departments whose sole purpose is to create work for themselves to justify their cost. 

[joebloggs]

Something that hasn't been mentioned is trust, these people asking for our remain vote are the same ones who have taken our country to an ilegal war, committed fraud by claiming expenses they were not entitled to, made promises to students only to back track once in power etc etc

Who believes they have our future in mind while they campaign, or is there another agenda

Actually, can they be believed at all?