(01-01-16, 09:37 PM)chris.biker link Wrote: To add practical experience to this, I have a 600cc Honda Hornet (so not a fazer) but I have done 47,000 mile using semi synthetic car engine oil, the API standard is better than the quality stated in my Haynes manual. I do not mind sharing this info as I will run the bike till it is passed any resale value, as I have done with all the vehicles I have owned.
That's what I've done with my vehicles. Seems practical to me. Hate buying and selling.
Anyway, what oil are you using?
Most things done in a hurry need to be done again - patiently.
I used car oil in my Divvy for a number of years and so do a lot of people on the Divvy forum. It seems to be ok for that use. I tried Halfords semi synth bike oil when I had a ZZR and it was rubbish, the gear change was definitely worse so I stopped using it. That said I've put a bit in at this oil change because I didn't have quite enough of the Castrol semi synth to fully top it up.
Isn't the difference between car and bike oil down to friction modifiers and their use with a wet clutch? With something low powered like a Divvy it might not matter, with more power through the clutch it might.
After reading loads of stuff on the net which is mostly years out of date, it seams that the main differance between car and bike oil is the fact that most but not all unit construction bikes use the engine oil to lube the gear box. Pre-unit construction (seperate gearbox and engine sump) and many unit construction bikes from the 1950's onwards used an EP oil (extreme presure) for the gears.
It's the shear effect that breaks the oil down? and shortens the effective life of the oil, now there is the point if with modern semi and synthetic oils if it has any adverse effect if the oil is changed every 6,000 miles.
A few years when I got a new works van the FIRST service was at (from what I can remember) 26,000 miles or one year. A motorbike would be on its 5th service at that rate? if it did that milage.
So should you use bike oil..........YES.........will it make a differance ..........that's up to you?
(04-01-16, 05:13 PM)chaz link Wrote: A few years when I got a new works van the FIRST service was at (from what I can remember) 26,000 miles or one year. A motorbike would be on its 5th service at that rate? if it did that milage.
Maybe instead of mileage and the oil it would be fairer to compare engine revolutions when comparing cars against bikes
I don't do rain or threat there of. dry rider only with no shame.
Good point about the RPM but what about maximum piston speed? most bikes have a short stroke and cars a longer stroke so even though bike engines might be reving twice as fast (not my MT-01 LOL) the max piston speed could be the same and I would think that most of the stresses take place in the cylinders?
Think everyone agrees bikes are harder on oil than cars and yet they design bike engines so that one oil has to do all the jobs. Seems mad. I wonder why they don't separate the component parts of a bike engine like gearbox, clutch, cylinder and then have an oil for each section? An engine would have to last longer. Maybe that's why they don't do it :lol
05-01-16, 07:16 PM (This post was last modified: 05-01-16, 07:28 PM by Val.)
(01-01-16, 03:07 PM)chaz link Wrote: What I want to know is at what point does oil become either car oil or bike oil? does it come from different oil wells, don't think so, does it go to different refineries, doubt it, does it have different additives, yes it can have a milage enhancer like PTFE and this could make your clutch slip, does it undergo different testing, yes the grading is different (the letters and numbers) for car and bike oils but it doesn't mean the oil is different.
What we need is the person who puts the labels on the cans of oil to tells us the facts. I know bike engines tend to rev higher than cars do but which has to do the most work, a 1000cc bike at 200Kg plus max of 2 people or a 1400cc car around 1000Kg plus up to 5 (or more) people?
Oh and I use GTX 10/40w semi in my FZ6 which is around £23 but the last lot I bought at £10 for 4 litres at wilco's in a sale and also got some 15/40w for my other bike at half price in 1 litre packs as it takes 5 litres.
you can get 20L drums with proper semi synth Silkolene Super 4 10W-40 for about £90, so paying £23 for 4L car oil is no saving at all? 4L Silkolene proper motorcycle oil cost the same:
Long story short some car oils may be better than some motorcycle oils and vice versa. Good oils have the same ingredients. The only problem in some good car oils is the additives that make possible oil changes for say 10 000 miles - these are not good in motorcycle and may foc up your clutch.
(04-01-16, 07:49 PM)His Dudeness link Wrote: Think everyone agrees bikes are harder on oil than cars and yet they design bike engines so that one oil has to do all the jobs. Seems mad. I wonder why they don't separate the component parts of a bike engine like gearbox, clutch, cylinder and then have an oil for each section? An engine would have to last longer. Maybe that's why they don't do it :lol
If you look at the article above about the content of different components in oil - there is no difference between some good car oils and good motorcycle oils. Means you can use any if it is good. Emphasis is on good
INB4 good car oils are also expensive even more expensive than good motorcycle oil.
The whole debate point is wrong. There are no excellent car oils that are cheaper than motorcycle oils. There are good oils priced accordingly :lol
The price difference between crappy oil and good oil is about £10 for one oil change. The awfull cranking sound of your engine running on crappy oil - priceless.
Adrian Monk: Unless I'm wrong, which, you know, I'm not.
Yep always used and always will use car oil in my bikes, been riding 36 years and no issues on normal road bikes with clutch slip, funny I posted a a similar thread on Practical sportsbikes Face book page, it got quite heated at one point, I think one of the staff writers spat his dummy out at me because I did not use 'motorcycle specific oil'. Each to there own, a lot of people do what the sales blurb says :'( Oil is Oil.
And on the point of cost - brent crude is now £35 (or should that be $ ) I know our bike oil is treated etc but should we be seeing the price of 4ltrs come down like we see petrol come down in price
I don't do rain or threat there of. dry rider only with no shame.
It really is not advisable to use ordinary engine oil in your bike, most modern car oil has additive like molybdenum and other additives these act as extra lubricants and will eventually cause wet clutches to slip.
You might be lucky cleaning the clutch plates out after you have given the engine a complete flush out, but more often than not they will need replacing as they get a burnt on shellac like substance caused by the slippage.
Best spend a tenner more on some quality oil and save yourself a fortune and a lot of hassle, plus down time for the bike.
I personally use Shell Advance and found it to be reliable and it some how stays cleaner than other oils I have used, also it has no additives what so ever so completely detergent free.
Keep the shiny side up and the greasy side down.
Tom
Garages at Tesco Extras have got Castrol 10/40 Racing fully synthetic on special offer at £6 for a litre bottle at the moment. Whereas the semi is £10.
Darrsi Sounds like a good move to me mate.
Good quality Oil on eBay £27-50 and they will even bring it to you front door for nothing. [color=rgb(119, 119, 119)]
Hey Fazersharp!
If you rub them in it, it will waterproof them and when you take them out of the tank to play with them the water runs off the instantly, but what I like the most is if you squeeze them really hard you can get them to shoot from one side of the room to the other, they love it :rollin :lol [size=78%] [/size]
(10-01-16, 05:07 PM)tommyardin link Wrote: Hey Fazersharp!
If you rub them in it, it will waterproof them and when you take them out of the tank to play with them the water runs off the instantly, but what I like the most is if you squeeze them really hard you can get them to shoot from one side of the room to the other, they love it :rollin :lol
:thumbup
I don't do rain or threat there of. dry rider only with no shame.
(10-01-16, 05:07 PM)tommyardin link Wrote: Hey Fazersharp!
If you rub them in it, it will waterproof them and when you take them out of the tank to play with them the water runs off the instantly, but what I like the most is if you squeeze them really hard you can get them to shoot from one side of the room to the other, they love it :rollin :lol
Love your pets - they will tell no one!
Most things done in a hurry need to be done again - patiently.
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