dig deep now children !

[VNA]

Now all we need is for iano to turn up [img alt=:lol]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/img]

Oh for God's sake.

I mentioned I was a Christian as it was relevant to the question at hand.

That's my point it's not relevant.  Not in the slightest.

To call someone dumb

I didn't call him dumb, I suggested he was an " idiotic ignorant short sighted foccer"     It was his straw man question I called dumb.

VNA stands for Very Nasty Andy...

Well remembered richfzs :lol

[midden]

[quote author=midden link=topic=12411.msg138847#msg138847 date=1396525113]
So Hightower, Farjo and any others


It's xmas day the oversized turkey is about to come out of the over the spuds and sprouts are ready along with all the other belt busting delights of 1st world greed.  WAY too much for your families needs but hey it's Christmas.


You look out of your front window and on the pavement outside is a homeless person sitting there cold and hungry. 
Do you


a. Go out invite him in to bathe and sit down for a meal with you at the table
b. Take a meal out for him
As it is Christmas and that time for goodwill to all men
or
c. close the curtains and deny poverty exist in this fine country with an I'm alright Jack

I'm a Christian, so I think you could guess my answer (and no, it's not counting the gold that we've just collected from the service!). I honestly would invite them in. We do a lot of work for the Church, and try to give as much as we can, especially in terms of time.


As for your point about "I wonder how many Chileans living in the UK would donate back" - so what if they do, so what if they don't?! There's too much of that attitude of "I'll help if he does" in this world - if we all thought like that we'd all be sat on our hands waiting for others to act (sound familiar?).


How many times have you seen (even youtube videos) people in trouble, in a city with many people around. How many times do people just watch and wait? It takes one brave person to do something and then suddenly he/she has a dozen helpers - where were those helpers before this brave guy stepped in? Watching, waiting.


I'm not preaching, really. But I believe God left us the ability to make Heaven on this earth. As long as we're looking down our noses at each other coming out with "why should I help when they can't help themselves" then we'll never experience love as it's meant to in this life.


I can't think of anything worse than being stuck in poverty, with no hope, no light at the end of the tunnel, no way out. And there's all these people with money who just stand and judge. Behind each and everyone is a heart, a person, a soul. And we just toss them to one side with things like "why should we help, we didn't have an earthquake". I sincerely pray that none of you ever have to experience poverty like some of these countries.
[/quote]
Not sure I was giving the attitude of I'll help if he does or why help when they can't help themselves.  But it seems to me that this country has been held under a dark cloud of guilt from centuries ago for the slave trade and empire building. Even by those who have benefited from those actions
I actually don't mind the aide being given and I do also think that's why in part we are greater than others. I also don't slag of economic migrants for coming over. After all wouldn't we all do the same if the shoe was on the other foot.

[midden]

I'm a Christian

Oh Christ!

I'm not preaching, really.

I rather think you are.

But seriously, you, I or anybody else does not need to justify ourselves to idiotic ignorant short sighted foccers like midden or answer their dumb straw man questions.

As it goes I'm glad you have me all wrong


and it isn't a dumb question, it's one I've often asked myself. 

[hightower]

I wasn't suggesting you were midden, sorry if it sounded like that. When discussing such a matter you can only really talk in general blanketing terms (ie the country as a whole). I wasn't trying to point fingers.


And nope, I didn't know VNA meant that. One thing I do know though is I CBA with those sorts of 'very nasty' posts.

[slimwilly]

Foc em, yes Foc em,,all of them ,, and you lot too,,Foc U

[hightower]

Foc em, yes Foc em,,all of them ,, and you lot too,,Foc U

I was waiting for you to come along and bring us back to the mad house this forum is! That was far too serious for a minute, I thought it was all over for FOC-U.  :lol

[slimwilly]

I am off to have a bath,,,


I have never given to forein charities,not myself,,,well not much,,my government might of used my money..


i would but my arms are quite short and my pockets are quite deep :lol

[midden]

and he has a whale tank to fill. Oh no I don't suppose your water is metred.


I have to bathe in the kitchen sink with the plastic knife and forks

[midden]

[quote author=slimwilly link=topic=12411.msg138993#msg138993 date=1396553372]
Foc em, yes Foc em,,all of them ,, and you lot too,,Foc U

I was waiting for you to come along and bring us back to the mad house this forum is! That was far too serious for a minute, I thought it was all over for FOC-U.  :lol
[/quote]


That bloody devil and her advocate 

[hightower]

Nothing but a bunch of heathens!

[slimwilly]

and he has a whale tank to fill. Oh no I don't suppose your water is metred.


I have to bathe in the kitchen sink with the plastic knife and forks

Haha,,quite the opposite,,funny the things you dont notice when looking around a property,,,the bath is smart,roll top.fancy legs,,buttttt,,when i had my first bath here,,,i could only just get in it,,it is only about 4 1/2 foot long,,cant straighten your legs when sat down,, :lol ,, a water saving bath,,oh and yes we are on a meter.. :eek


I did give a friend some pounds the other week, she has been on a visit to Tanzania,,,thats it for this year

[fireblake]

I'm the type of bloke who would listen to other peoples opinions. My politics are more right than left but one thing that really totally pisses me off is when I'm wrong or don't understand the bigger picture some know it all calls me a racist or a bigot or as nutty as a fruit cake.
Explain to me my errors, not call me names. When I mentioned to a local Labour candidate about Coming out of Europe he practically called me an idiot, (I already knew that) What I didn't know we're the Pro's and Con's of leaving/staying?  Alas most of what I read or hear is about positives of leaving. But if someone calls me a racist bigoted idiot for asking why, I'm more likely to think totally opposite to your opinion
But to get back to the original point of the thread, why are we giving aid to countries like China, I know they have extreme poverty but they are the richest country on earth in real terms. If they choose to buy American debt rather than educate or feed their own people why should we give them aid. The same with India, when you see children living on rubbish dumps but they can send rockets into space and we can't. I'm over simplifying  this but to all the ignorant bigots please explain why their taxes are given to other countries when this country has so many problems. They maybe smaller than the countries receiving aid but they mean a lot to those living here.


Mickey

[midden]

[quote author=midden link=topic=12411.msg139014#msg139014 date=1396555458]
and he has a whale tank to fill. Oh no I don't suppose your water is metred.


I have to bathe in the kitchen sink with the plastic knife and forks

Haha,,quite the opposite,,funny the things you dont notice when looking around a property,,,the bath is smart,roll top.fancy legs,,buttttt,,when i had my first bath here,,,i could only just get in it,,it is only about 4 1/2 foot long,,cant straighten your legs when sat down,, :lol ,, a water saving bath,,oh and yes we are on a meter.. :eek


I did give a friend some pounds the other week, she has been on a visit to Tanzania,,,thats it for this year
[/quote]


I was referring to the Hot tub 

[VNA]

midden,

But it seems to me that this country has been held under a dark cloud of guilt from centuries ago for the slave trade and empire building. Even by those who have benefited from those actions

It seems to me that our shameful imperialist days are not yet over.  From the Suez Canal debacle, our wholesale theft of much of the Middle East oil, our support of bloody American foreign policy for decades and decades right up to and through the illegal and immoral recent war in Iraq.  And our support of the so called exploitative 'free market'.  Then there's out arms trade, we are now stuck in a Military Economic Complex, as a country we export serious amounts of arms to some of the most repressive and disgusting regimes around the globe.

I actually don't mind the aide being given and I do also think that's why in part we are greater than others.

But we, and the other members of the G8 admitted, and admitted back in 2005, (as I posted above) that our AID programmes are actually exploitative and do much damage, and that something urgently needed to be done to resolve such totally unacceptable practises.  Yet it's now 2014 and nothing has changed.

So how is it that you think 'we' are greater than others?

[midden]

Fair points
So the answer perhaps is to lay down, hand everything which this country has wrongly taken and the gains from back to those who the injustice was done to including their descendants. Then may be we will be forgiven for our sins and they will see fit to offer us the odd handout which yes we all know is given really only for political financial gain.


Of course like all equal right laws the balance is never actually leveled merely reversed.


Discuss 

[VNA]

Well perhaps we could start with some simple things;

Here at home make sure that everybody pays their fair share of tax.  ie Lets make sure that those missing billions upon billions of tax that is not paid each year gets paid by the big tax dodging corporations.

Lets switch from 'free trade' to 'fair trade'.  We need fair international trading standards working conditions that apply to all.

Lets stop dumping our subsidised excess produce in the third world, as it's wrecking their economies.

Stop tying AID to economic reforms that allow the west to exploit, asset strip, and utterly wreck third world economies.

The problem with our foreign policy, aside from the millions upon millions that have have lost their lives, and the many millions more that have been displaced and/or held in abject poverty, is that surprise surprise the world is becoming an ever increasingly dangerous place.  We are reaping the harvest of the seeds we have sown in that respect.

Oh where to start. 

Anyway hopefully after September the 18th this year, the UK can do as it bloody well pleases, with a little luck I'll no longer be part of it.  Bye bye UK, and good riddance. 

[midden]

Well perhaps we could start with some simple things;

Here at home make sure that everybody pays their fair share of tax.  ie Lets make sure that those missing billions upon billions of tax that is not paid each year gets paid by the big tax dodging corporations.

Lets switch from 'free trade' to 'fair trade'.  We need fair international trading standards working conditions that apply to all.

Lets stop dumping our subsidised excess produce in the third world, as it's wrecking their economies.

Stop tying AID to economic reforms that allow the west to exploit, asset strip, and utterly wreck third world economies.

The problem with our foreign policy, aside from the millions upon millions that have have lost their lives, and the many millions more that have been displaced and/or held in abject poverty, is that surprise surprise the world is becoming an ever increasingly dangerous place.  We are reaping the harvest of the seeds we have sown in that respect.

Oh where to start. 

Anyway hopefully after September the 18th this year, the UK can do as it bloody well pleases, with a little luck I'll no longer be part of it.  Bye bye UK, and good riddance. 

Everyone pays their fair share of tax has to include those one man builders window cleaners dole boys working on the side. They often get missed out of the argument in favour of the big corporations, as u just have.  Remember it's the pennies which we need to look after not the pounds. But you won't have to worry about that come September ey?


Oh yes but of course it would seem that Scotland (who begged to be part of the Uk originally) want their 'freedom back but want/need to keep the strength of the Pound sterling.  After all how will they be invited in to Europe with out it  [size=78%] [/size]
[/size][size=78%]Incidently will we England be giving the oil back?[/size]

[Farjo]

"But to get back to the original point of the thread, why are we giving aid to countries like China, I know they have extreme poverty but they are the richest country on earth in real terms. If they choose to buy American debt rather than educate or feed their own people why should we give them aid. The same with India, when you see children living on rubbish dumps but they can send rockets into space and we can't. I'm over simplifying  this but to all the ignorant bigots please explain why their taxes are given to other countries when this country has so many problems. They maybe smaller than the countries receiving aid but they mean a lot to those living here. "

Interesting questions Not sure what you mean by "they are the richest country on earth in real terms". They have the second biggest economy (to the USA) however there are a billion of them to share that money aruond, and given that some regions are richer than others it means that the other regions are still very very poor. Perhaps it's like asking Why do the gov't give money to inner London boroughs when London as a whole is very rich. Incidentally we gave 27 thousand pounds to china in 2012.

Perhaps it's the same in India - quite a lot of money now but huge inequalities and their national wealth may look big in total but is stretched across 1.2bn people. In a way you answered your own question - there are children living on rubbish dumps in extreme poverty.

How about another "outside your house" question If a rich family in your street never bought one of their kids any toys, would you want to buy that kid something to play with?

[VNA]

Everyone pays their fair share of tax has to include those one man builders window cleaners dole boys working on the side. They often get missed out of the argument in favour of the big corporations, as u just have.  Remember it's the pennies which we need to look after not the pounds. But you won't have to worry about that come September ey?

I rather think you need to look after the pounds, the billions upon billions of missing pounds from the UK tax revenues.  I'm afraid you ain't gonna pay off the deficit with pennies.

Oh yes but of course it would seem that Scotland (who begged to be part of the UK originally) want their 'freedom back but want/need to keep the strength of the Pound sterling.

This will be the first time that people in Scotland will have been asked if they wish to be part of the UK. 
Of course we want to keep the pound, it's as much our currency as it is England's, Wales or Northern Ireland's.
And in any case come a yes vote, Westminster will be suddenly keen on a currency union.  Unless that is that England really wants to bite off it's nose to spite it's face. 

After all how will they be invited in to Europe with out it

Scotland is already part of the EU.  Which is another reason why many Scots will vote YES.  If we stay with the UK we could be dragged out of Europe by the fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists doon south.  Most people in Scotland want to remain in the EU.

[VNA]

Interesting questions [img alt=]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/smile.gif[/img] Not sure what you mean by "they are the richest country on earth in real terms". They have the second biggest economy (to the USA) however there are a billion of them to share that money aruond, and given that some regions are richer than others it means that the other regions are still very very poor.

Indeed.  How about a peak at energy consumption;

Average home electrical consumption per person per year

USA  - 4517 kWh/year
UK    - 1985 kWh/year
China -  433kWh/year