(16-08-12, 08:53 AM)DryRob link Wrote:I don't think positive discrimination to over express our diverse ethnic community would have done anything more than scream "we're not racist here, honest" and what's the point of that?
That's what I mean.
The achievements of the athletes of whatever ethnic background are the result of their own drive and determination, of singular hard work and dedication to their sport. Let's not take all that away from them as individuals and pretend that they managed it because of how diverse Britain is today, which is what the politicians are trying to say. Also, pandering to minorities is getting old, in my view it serves to highlight a perceived difference rather than treating everyone the same.
And finally, the 'elephant in the room' for all those that would foist the diversity mantra upon us was the lack of burqua clad British flag bearers - You'll see that when hell freezes over. So as we celebrate the achievements of the brightest and best of our young athletes at home, also spare a thought for the brightest and best of our young people in the armed forces, currently overseas fighting and dying for the rights of immigrants to come here and hate us.
The fireworks were nice, and as they lit up the London skyline in their multi million pound splendour I'm sure the tens of thousands of unfortunates sleeping in doorways had an excellent view.
Ozpom - the opening ceremony was massively diverse! The actors of various skin colours playing parts that would have been white at the time, the whole section about the immigrant workforce to rebuild after the war. The the section about teenagers appears to be about teenagers in that particular part of London (this made me laugh actually as I got a message from the Brazilian side of the family asking where the English kids were!). Add in the volunteers and flag carriers of various backgrounds (including a lot of head scarves but no burka that I saw) there was a pretty obvious mix of people through the games.
The closing ceremony was a different thing though. Actually it celebrated our tolerance of drug addicts..... ;o)
The indian dancers around Eric Idle was a bit odd though. And the whole closing ceremony was a bit under-par compared to the rest of the event. So lets remember the athletes instead hey?
(16-08-12, 10:45 AM)DILLIGAFF link Wrote:...................and don't forget the brilliant Gemma Gibbons who fought on in the judo WITH A BROKEN THUMB and won a Silver medal.
On the news this morning some poofie fotballer has pulled out because he had "a bruised thigh". Great example to British youth.
There was also a female hockey player had her jaw broken with a full on whack with a hockey stick. They patcher her up and she played the rest of the tournament with a fractured jaw - absolute hero.
(16-08-12, 10:56 AM)alan sherman link Wrote: So lets remember the athletes instead hey?
Exactly. Not Boris Johnson or Cameron.
As for diversity I think it is wrong to 'celebrate' it. Now before anyone jumps down my throat please bear with me. Those individual athlete's (of all ethnic backgrounds) did something very special, they plotted themselves a course, trained hard, and dug deep within their mental and physical reserves to win through, and That is what needs celebrating.
These were people from all backgrounds, social strata and ethnicity, but what they had in common was the will to overcome the odds and to succeed. When put together those diverse individuals formed 'Team GB' and went on to make us proud. The message that we should take from this is that commonality of purpose is what makes us work well together, and achieving shared goals are what brings out the team spirit and self respect as a nation. To point out our differences as this current obsession with celebrating diversity does, is to divide into segments rather than unite as a whole.
We've seen what can be achieved if we all work together for a common goal, so why make a feature of distinctions and divisions rather than unite under one banner?
(15-08-12, 05:39 PM)richfzs link Wrote:Couldn't agree more mate. The footballers could learn a lot from many sports over the last few weeks, with their bolshie attitudes, and their rolling around on the floor "Ref, he looked at me wrong, look I'm holding my shin, ow it hurts". Just a few examples:-
a) American sprinter in the 4*400 - broke his leg at the 200m point, but finished his leg quick enough for them to qualify for the final
b) Tony Martin in the Tour de France, broke his wrist but rode another few days before retiring
c) I forget his name, another rider in the TdF, crashed heavily, but completed the stage (around 25km) before saying he thought he should go to hospital - where they told him he'd broken his hip.
d) The grief they get away with dishing out to the referees - any other sport they'd be sent off immediately. Compare with RugbyU, where the ref is "Sir" and even if a wrong call is made, there is no back chat at all - and not even much complaint after the game is complete, just an acceptance thats how it is.
The footballers deserve no respect at all, and are definitely no role models.
Sounds like something you hear from a woman. You played football?
(16-08-12, 08:43 AM)Rusty link Wrote:[quote author=ozpom link=topic=4200.msg35041#msg35041 date=1345101255]
To show the world that we're aware of it and glad of it.
We?
[/quote]
Yes, we, the people of Britain, who were being represented by the ceremonies. We, the British people who understand that while there are immigrants who take the piss and break the rules there are a lot of non-immigrants who do the same things and lot a of immigrants who do things right and make the UK a better place. If that doesn't include you then that's a pity.
(16-08-12, 08:43 AM)Rusty link Wrote:Perhaps we should also have celebrated how wonderful it is to be in the EU? Or replaced the Union flags with Brussels star circles and had our MP's march along waving them as examples of personal integrity and trustworthyness? The whole thing was political propaganda, stage managed confection, total bollox intended to project an image of a Britain that doesn't actually exist.
The athletes did well, but they were and are being used as political pawns.
Yes, they are, but as often happens in these sorts of discussions you're taking things to extremes to dodge the question. I'm not going to push this any further as I'll just be dismissed as a lefty pinko tree-hugger :rolleyes
Quote:Ozpom - the opening ceremony was massively diverse! The actors of various skin colours playing parts that would have been white at the time, the whole section about the immigrant workforce to rebuild after the war. The section about teenagers appears to be about teenagers in that particular part of London (this made me laugh actually as I got a message from the Brazilian side of the family asking where the English kids were!). Add in the volunteers and flag carriers of various backgrounds (including a lot of head scarves but no burka that I saw) there was a pretty obvious mix of people through the games.
Ah yes, I admit I'd forgotten the post-war immigration part. And yes, there was a good ethnic mix in the people who took part. It's just that no specific mention was made of how good it is that GB is a colourful mix of cultures, it was just left in the background. Maybe they though they'd offend too many Daily Mail readers
Sadness is just another word for not enough coffee
Or maybe they thought they'd be British about about it and present it without ramming it down people's throats? Did you want a specific section thanking the Aussies for their contribution to bar work?
Don't forget Wiggins (Born in Belgium to an Australian father - but grew up in London from the age of 7), Chris Froome - Kenyan but switched to British nationality (his parents or grandparents were british) to further his career. Cavendish and Kennaugh are from the the Isle of Man so are British dependencies, not part of the UK.
I loved Mo Farrar's response to a journalists question about whether he would prefer to have been running for Somalia. Pretty clear cut there where his loyalties are.
(17-08-12, 08:52 AM)ozpom link Wrote:Not wanting to get too Grahamm-esque but...
Yes, we, the people of Britain, who were being represented by the ceremonies. We, the British people who understand that while there are immigrants who take the piss and break the rules there are a lot of non-immigrants who do the same things and lot a of immigrants who do things right and make the UK a better place. If that doesn't include you then that's a pity.
I find it interesting that you believe you have a mandate to speak on behalf on the entire British people, except of course for the sizeable majority that would disagree with you for whom of course it's just 'a pity'.
And just how good is it that Britain is a colourful mix of alien cultures? Why can't it just be Britain? Surely that's what attracted all those cultures here in the first place? There's nothing good about Sharia law, child slavery, witchcraft, honour killings or polygamy, which appears to be the sort of cultural manifestations that are prevalent around here, or were you just thinking how you enjoy a curry?
You mention two newspapers that hold opposing points of view in an attempt to polarise and/or stereotype a disparate group of individuals that have no affiliation to either. Individuals that do however, have the ability and good sense to think for themselves. If true to form the next weapon in the excuse arsenal would come in the form of ad Hominem attacks, so I'll leave this conversation there. Just for the record, I'm also British, part of the British people, and No, you don't speak for me, just as Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, and David Cameron doesn't either.
To be honest, thank God's it's over. I should have loved it, but today the Olympics is more about corporate greed and national prestige and patriotism than anything else. And what are all these professional athletes and sports persons doing there?
I heard one interesting comment on the radio as to what should actually be in the Olympics, one sports pundit offering the opinion, if any sport has it's biggest moment elsewhere then it probably shouldn't be in the Olympics. That makes sense to me. As much as I loved to see Bradley Wiggins win gold, not to mention get pissed and smoke a few roll ups, I don't understand why the road race and time trial are open to pros.
The coverage. Please keep it off the news channels. And thank god for Al Jazeera! Second, do we have to be so focused on ourselves, and oh those painful ten times too long interviews with the winning (British only) athletes. The best coverage I found was on foreign news channels, free of the UK's self obsessed patriotism.
As for all you 'asylum seeking' anti-immigration EDL and BNP supporters, well the UK wouldn't have won that many medals without a little immigration over the last few decades.
As for those opening and closing ceremonies, I didn't watch them, I hate all that crap. Sure some sort of ceremony is needed, but now it's just 'look at us' - 'we are better than you' throw a few hundred million at it patriotic bollocks exercise.
Quote:So as we celebrate the achievements of the brightest and best of our young athletes at home, also spare a thought for the brightest and best of our young people in the armed forces, currently overseas fighting and dying for the rights of immigrants to come here and hate us.
The biggest numbers of 'asylum seekers' in the last few years coming to the UK have been Iraqi and Afghan. That's cos the poor kids in the armed forces, who know nothing of the countries they are fighting in, or what they are fighting for, are over there fucking up countries for our rich leaders stupid global political fantasies. We got fucked in Iraq, we are getting fucked in Afghanistan, as anybody with half a brain knew we would, it's time to get our good young boys and girls out of it and back home with their families where they belong.
Meanwhile I watched "Is football racist" I think that's what it was called. Sure amazing progress has been made in terms of racial tolerance. But yeah, one point made by this programme was, if half the players are black or from other minorities, well where are all the black managers? Good question.
Quote:To point out our differences as this current obsession with celebrating diversity does, is to divide into segments rather than unite as a whole.
As one friend put it to me. I'll be happy when the day comes that I'm just Scottish, not an Asian Scot, or Scottish Muslim, just Scottish. But we still have a long way to go Rusty.
(17-08-12, 01:25 PM)Rusty link Wrote:There's nothing good about Sharia law, child slavery, witchcraft, honour killings or polygamy, which appears to be the sort of cultural manifestations that are prevalent around here, or were you just thinking how you enjoy a curry?
What's wrong with polygamy?!? :rollin
Anyway, different cultures are different. The fact you percieve yours as "better" is a bit shortsighted, but I'm sure it's easier to look at the world in such way.
Most immigrants didn't come for British culture (and sure as hell not for the weather), but for the money. Or to save their necks. My country was bombed by "the allies" some 10 years ago and many people fled to Germany and England. To work, to live.
Most things done in a hurry need to be done again - patiently.
What's wrong with polygamy? Multiple mother in laws!
(17-08-12, 03:02 PM)VNA link Wrote:[size=1em]
[/size]
Quote:[size=1em]To point out our differences as this current obsession with celebrating diversity does, is to divide into segments rather than unite as a whole.[/size]
[size=1em]
As one friend put it to me. I'll be happy when the day comes that I'm just Scottish, not an Asian Scot, or Scottish Muslim, just Scottish. But we still have a long way to go Rusty.[/size]
[size=1em]Indeed... on both sides. But you get what I'm driving at don't you, and we can't get there unless we are all part of the whole. All this talk of celebrating one set over another or focussing attention to this or that just perpetuates the differences, it's time we dropped it. I look at America and see the greatest amount of ethnic diversity on earth, yet when the band plays they all are proud to be an 'American'.[/size]
[size=1em]Britain has an established culture, and similarly all are invited to share in it and be proud of it. I don't believe there is anything Bnp or Edl in those sentiments, nor would I wish them to be construed in that way. As for the Olympics, I see it as a gathering of noble athletes that all do their countries proud, unfortunately for many (Britain included) the governments and leaders of those respective nations don't deserve such accolades themselves.[/size]
Quote:But you get what I'm driving at don't you, and we can't get there unless we are all part of the whole. All this talk of celebrating one set over another or focussing attention to this or that just perpetuates the differences, it's time we dropped it.
[size=1em]I disagree celebrating our multi-cultural society is about bring all together, it should be about opening up cultures, learning about each other and coming together.
[/size]
Quote:[size=1em]I look at America and see the greatest amount of ethnic diversity on earth, yet when the band plays they all are proud to be an 'American'.[/size]
I look at America and see the richest nation in the world, with the biggest gap between rich and poor, a country that can't even provide basic health care and where many minorities live in ghettos. I see a country that displays dangerous levels of patriotism and marginalises anybody who dares to take a stand or speak the truth "you are either with us or against us" - George W Bush.
Lets not take any lessons from the USA.
Quote:[size=1em]Britain has an established culture, and similarly all are invited to share in it and be proud of it.[/size]
Cultures are not set in stone, they are constantly evolving, immigration is part of that evolution. I welcome cultural progress. As for being British, no thank-you, I'm looking forward to our referendum in 2014. I'm Scottish first, European second, and British last, and well done to those Scottish and Welsh athletes who refused to sing God Save the Queen!
