R6 forks (non USD) for Gen1

[blackcabbie]

hi kebab
firstly thanks for all the research regarding this mod.... i was looking to lower the front end, with better quality forks, but didnt want to go through all the hastle of the r1 fork conversion, so this solution seems ideal.

i have sourced a nice pair of 5sl forks and axle.... however when fitting the fazer wheel in the forks, when the axle bolt is tighten'd up fully it pulls the axel spindle through the forks by a few mm's hence the wheel is not central between the forks.

this is when i am using the original fazer wheel spacers (one each side).... do i need an additional spacer to enable the wheel to sit centred between the new forks.... i think an additional spacing washer fitted on the left hand side (when viewing from the front) may fix this problem, but is this what you had to do...

cheers

dave

[kebab19]

Hi Dave,
'Oldson' had the same problem, with spindle being pulled sideways when tightening, whereas for some reason my spindle stayed in place.
Try a different assembly order from Yamaha's instructions. Basically you want the spindle with the recessed hex to be flush with the outer fork leg, then tighten the two pinch bolts @ that fork leg to keep it in place & stop it from turning. Then you can tighten up the axle nut without the spindle being dragged towards the centre & pulling everything out of alignment.

Also, 'Oldson' pointed out that the brake calipers are a bit off-centre (the 5SL R6 wheel width must be a few mm thinner) as a result they run VERY close to the discs, particularly on the recessed hex side. If you can place 2mm washers either side of the Fazer wheel spacers (up against the fork leg) it negates this problem. 'Oldson' is looking into having 2mm longer wheel spacers fabricated, which will provide a more elegant solution. PM me if you have any further problems or 'Oldson' if you want a pair of revised wider wheel spacers. 

[blackcabbie]

ive been playing with this today and my solution which gets the wheel central between the forks is to insert a m22 washer on the "bolt" side.... left hand side when viewing from the front.... i think using your solution of tightening the pinch bolts on the hex socket side first to hold the axle fast and tightening the bolt on the axle could be a bit dodgy as this could have the effect of bending the fork leg inward to take up the play between the spacer and the fork leg.

maybe you have different size spacers on your bike......but my wheel and spacers are about 2mm narrower than the fork width...

also i have manadged to utilise the fazer mudguard with the aid of some hollow tube and longer screws on the front fixings , and short metal plates for the rear fixings.

thanks, i couldnt have done this or thought about it without your research.

cheers

dave

[kebab19]

Dave, will check if the wheel is central, certainly doesn't feel much off.

I did think the Fazer mudguard would fit with some hollow spacers etc but thought it would put people off if they wanted a quick solution without surgery. I might look into making suitable spacers myself or PM me pics of them so I can add to the original thread & credit your thinking.

Let us know how you get on with suspension settings. The R6 springs are a bit borderline for the extra 100+lbs of bike although you could use the original Fazer springs with cut-down internal spacers, even if they are progressive and not linear.

[devilsyam]

nice mod Kebab seems a good option not for me as i still dont see the point but each to there own :rollin

[kebab19]

Thanks Luke 

The benefits should be improved damping, better handling, revised riding position, less unsprung weight & it pretty much bolts straight on.

I am surprised that you don't see the point, as with your R6 shock you've in essence done a similar thing, instead modifying the back-end with a supersport 600 part.

[devilsyam]

no i mean i dont see the point over usd's, as fork tech moves on makes sense to move with it this is bourne out with the race teams and manafactures all running usd's

cant recall seeing normal set up on any gp bike

i'm not knocking it and i think good on you

[blackcabbie]

hi luke... i think the point of this mod is that the forks just slide into the original fazer yokes.... no new r1 yokes with fazer stem needed, no loss of turning circle, better quality fork internals than standard, and a total doddle to fit... i have your r6 rear shock, and now a r6 front end as well... i think it looks superb, and much cheaper than a ktech revalve or the r1 fork mod.... also i know its a personal opinion, but i think normal way up forks look better on the fazer, more keeping with its overall style...

[kebab19]

Ah right. Well you're right there Luke, it's true that these forks lack the ultimate rigidity of R1 USD's.

Still good enough to cope with my paltry riding efforts, tho :-)

[old son]

and good enough to allow the fazer to perform to somewhere close to its limit. I think you can go over the top, this is not a sports machine and never will be. If you are building for bling thne yes go for it but the R6 front forks are not a bling upgrade, they are a cheap performance enhancement that provides a noticable improvement to the way my bike performs.

[blackcabbie]

heres some piccies of r6 forks on my fazer

[blackcabbie]

more

[macmivvi]

Sexy, those black legs and that flash of inner stanchion  :b Who needs usd's :lol

My impressions so far without any component change are the further the forks are raised the better it gets . I went as far as 33mm but there are clearance issues between fork leg and yoke, no problem with horn,mudguard or rad.
But its really more about attitude of bike than where the forks are and could be acheived by also raising the rear, there is a sweet spot which I found , lost ,found and now lost again .

I ran at 24mm raised and an R6 rear with preload at 5 and the handling was really good but the fork damping was still irritating , the expansion jts on the Tay Road Bridge have now since been smoothed over using 2.5wt oil .
I filled the forks to 4.75" and with everything else same found the ride ht higher, the damping could now cope with the sharp hits and felt really nice but the extra oil was giving too much support in the first part of travel
I checked the sag figures and static and dynamic were the same so backed off preload to 3rings which gave static sag of 30mm and as I couldnt remove any oil without removing the legs decided to up rear preload a notch to 6 and add 2 each to rebound and comp, now 13 and set the hs comp to 2, the improvement to the damping on the forks was making the rear feel a bit soft .

Set up like this N Fife B roads were laughed at, front is almost perfect , rear still needs fiddling to cope on really undulating roads when you hit a big one fast. its almost a wallow . Apart from that the handling and damping are a million miles from the old lardarse that needed heaving about, I now get home exhilarated instead of worn out.

Today I fitted the shortened fork springs Kebab kindly provided, suspecting a repeat of similar characteristics to those from the extra oil, I reduced amount to 5", left preload at 3 and found the  static sag had reduced to 17 so know my ride ht/ nice set up is gone. It has,
riding feels like the front is now nodding over the minor bumps ,its a lot more effort to hit an apex and fork feels much too stiff in initial travel
and  I also blew my theory of possibly less travel , a tyre locking stop saw my zip tie hit the bottom yoke.

So feel a bit depressed , will wind off more preload tomorrow but think there is only 1/2 ring left , I dont seem to have the 5 they claim in the handbook so doubt I can get the front down anymore, cant raise the forks, cant raise the rear due to being a short arse, so right now think the spring cut is not for little folk 

[kebab19]

Bit disappointing.

I'm wondering if an inch had've been chopped off the other end of the spring would it retain the initial dive of the fork travel? Failing that, would a pair of heavier linear springs off ebay help?  I suppose then it might feel too harsh again

Not too sure where to go from here, the 140mm travel sounds like its a bit too much to get around

[blackcabbie]

these r6 5sl forks are a revelation..... so much better than standard... i dont know if this is a function of the lower ride hight or better fork internals... i suspect its a combination of both.... it would be interesting to know if these r6 forks really do have better quality fork internals than standard, or do they all come out of the same parts bin.

also i know kebab had usd r1 forks and went to the normal way up r6 forks.... was this a backward step as far as  handling goes.

anyway i'm very happy i did this.

cheers

dave

[kebab19]

Glad you like the new setup, Dave.
I think the best way to describe the setup is that it feels right for corners, whereas with the standard front-end I never felt 100% confident about pushing on through bends.

As they first graced Yam's cutting edge 600cc sportsbike in 2003, I'd also say the damping design in the forks is a bit better than the Fazer's 2001 design, but the riding position with more weight over the front also plays a large part, as MacMivvi has been finding out by radically altering the height of the standard forks.

I do have R1 forks but it's an unfair comparison as they are the 2nd set I've fitted and have an Ohlins revalve kit inside them, so they obviously felt brilliant from the off. I did however previously have a pair of standard 4XV forks fitted before them and to be honest the R6 forks are easily on a par with them (but then again, their fork design dates back to 1998).

[macmivvi]

Yes the 140mm travel stops me from getting the stance I want by only altering the position of forks, but it would achievable by raising the rear.
I really didnt like the changes the shortened springs brought and with my weight I didnt need the first part of travel stiffened  it also ate up the sag I can set, a max of 24mm with the adjusters fully out ,I tried like that again today and then with min settings on damping , both help with turn in and ride but still feel the nodding. With the std springs that didnt happen .
I will put the std springs back in and return to the 4.75" oil level that allowed me to set more sag which I prefer .

My std forks work better with more weight on the front.
The damping is transformed by using 2.5wt oil and the extra amount gives more support throughout the travel range.
Raise the forks 20+ mm and it loves corners ,just feels effortless and planted, but its flirting with clearance issues .

Its been interesting doing it in steps and finding the effects of each change and frustrating because of the fork travel thing and short legs
Fitting the 5sl forks would work around this and the damping certainlly wouldnt be any cruder than the Fazers anyway I,m really pleased with the improvement Ive found. The high speed compression type hits arent there anymore and that was what annoyed me most.

A set of sorted R1 legs will undoubtedly be the best option , 
The 5sl legs the easiest to do option ,less bling factor but they can acheive the same handling benefits from a lowered front without the need for yoke and stem work.

I will keep an eye out for a set but not actively looking anymore , just looking forward to riding it for now .

[1967fazer]

You've lost me.......all this talk of preload and different damping settings!  :'(