Quick straw poll - the welfare £26K cap - good or bad?

[pitternator]

My opinion is the welfare state has evolved into the wrong system, and yes its clear too many folk are getting huge benefit for doing nowt. But instead of taking real benefits away from real deserving cases...which is the stupid tory blunt hammer approach...we should question just how benefits are given in the first place. AND there needs to be a work alternative given. BUT that is the trouble. We dont have 2.6 million unemployed and 2.6 million vacancies. A huge number of unemployed do want jobs but they genuinely cannot find any. Its not just a question of getting on yer bike either. Trouble is, its all starting to become extremely victorian, and everyone on benefit is  starting to be classed as a lazy scrounger. As a society we really are slipping into quite miserable intolerance and a " i'm allright jack stance" which is fine till the sword of damaclese descends on your job  , then you become a scrounger just cos you need help !
. The way out has to be a limit on benefit for sure, and definitely those who are fit should help on project or community  work, not sit at home.But it should be work with dignity and pride, not a workhouse approach. I feel very strongly that this government has abandoned the youth of today...just as the same old Tory government did in Thatchers day. Its just like turning back the clock.Its going to create social division, crime and IMO is just not the way  a civilised society should sort out the problem.
People need a vision and encouragement to pull themselves out of the mire,to get off benefit if they can..... not this ridiculous old fashioned same old tory bull approach.
Maybe we also should look at why we have 400 thousand immigrants on welfare too !
And dont go kidding yerselves all these benefits cannot be got right now....there just seems to be no judgement in the system, too much an automatic right .It is a stinking mess for sure...we pay too many people to do nothing, an utter waste of human kind  , and  then  throw abuse at genuine cases if they ask for  help .

[Major Rant]

ONLY PERSON in the world I hate

Walk a mile in his shoes, then you'll be a mile away and you'll have his footwear (and some interesting fungal diseases too I suspect)

More seriously, he has probably discovered that in "T Blairs World" it simply isn't worth working for minimum wage to pay G Brown's taxes in order to make an extra £30 a week. Why should he while he sees "the rich" (and to him that means anyone with a posh car) making more than he can ever hope to earn. Meanwhile the state pays for his kids and the NHS solves his health problems and life is good.

He may not be socially responsible but as things stood in 2010 he is right. The Government's task is to make him wrong.

4WIW , I have discovered that the only good reason for having money (more than say £40K a year) is to fund healthcare that the NHS won't provide (like - jumping the cancer waiting list! ). Everything else can be funded out of £40K.
- Cars don't go faster or much smoother beyond about £2K
- Housing is cheap or free if you already own it.
- Expensive holidays are a bore when you've had 10 of 'em - might as well go to Cornwall for £1K.
- Good food can be bought for £50 a week each.
- A good night out can be had for £30.
- If you save any money, HMRC will take 40 percent of it when you die.

[adeejaysdelight]

I know whay your saying here, but I would still like the lazy c**t to get a job and show his poor children a better life. A holiday to cornwall would be a massive treat. We went to Bulgaria a few years back, and when his kids enquired as to Bulgaria's wherabouts, I told them its on the eastern edge of Europe, a few thousand miles away and we would have to fly there. They replyed with "we are going to moodiesburn on holiday". Moodiesburn is a feeder town to Glasgow, about 15 miles away. That lazy toad's brother lives there and was taking them for a week. How sad is that  :'( .

He is, believe it or not, a qualified motor mechanic and has an HGV Licence. I KNOW that a garage about 2 miles away are activley seeking 2 full time mechanics. WTF?

Its wrong, plain wrong. And I have to admit, In the summer I take great pleasure in washing my car and two motorcycles and peacocking them right out on the front driveway in the sunshine with the engines running, all like - bling, look at my bling, bling, look at my bling. Not that it is bling, but to that MF, it is  :lol

ONLY PERSON in the world I hate

Walk a mile in his shoes, then you'll be a mile away and you'll have his footwear (and some interesting fungal diseases too I suspect)

More seriously, he has probably discovered that in "T Blairs World" it simply isn't worth working for minimum wage to pay G Brown's taxes in order to make an extra £30 a week. Why should he while he sees "the rich" (and to him that means anyone with a posh car) making more than he can ever hope to earn. Meanwhile the state pays for his kids and the NHS solves his health problems and life is good.

He may not be socially responsible but as things stood in 2010 he is right. The Government's task is to make him wrong.

4WIW , I have discovered that the only good reason for having money (more than say £40K a year) is to fund healthcare that the NHS won't provide (like - jumping the cancer waiting list! ). Everything else can be funded out of £40K.
- Cars don't go faster or much smoother beyond about £2K
- Housing is cheap or free if you already own it.
- Expensive holidays are a bore when you've had 10 of 'em - might as well go to Cornwall for £1K.
- Good food can be bought for £50 a week each.
- A good night out can be had for £30.
- If you save any money, HMRC will take 40 percent of it when you die.

[VNA]

This is quite an interesting one.
As the people who will be financially effected are generally rich Tories.    I wasn't convinced they would actually go and do this, because it hurts their own, though of course by the time it's been voted down a few times and amended it won't really make any difference, but the Tories will get applauded for making populist noises.  It's a non event, very clever posturing though. 
The reason we have this mess comes back to Maggie and the council houses.  There's foc all council houses any more.
I know guys at work who have DSS empires.  They buy a ropey flat for 30 grand, spend 5 - 10 grand making it meet the regs and then get some DSS in.    Every 3-6 years you make your money back on it.  My foccing tax money handed over, not to the unemployed, disabled or needy, but rich dudes with little rental empires.
Apparently, this legislation, if it does through, could save up to 250 million a year.  Well foc me ain't that a fortune!
Meanwhile crazy Dave is still to scared to do anything about the bankers bonuses, you know the guys we bailed out with a trillion quid or two who are throwing billions about in bonuses.  The non-doms and other rich tax avoiders (the more you earn the less you pay tax in % terms).  All the failed bankers on their state backed fat pension deals.
All the UK companies, operating in the UK but registered abroad, so they can skip on 100's of billions of pounds of tax.
That's where the money is folks. 
But hey don't expect the Daily Mail and the Express to let the obvious truth get in the way of a good story.  And you lot, just like the rest of the country swallow it whole.  Never mind who's really screwing you, just get that poor foccer on the benifits.

[BBROWN1664]

VNA, tax avoidance is a completely different matter that should be dealt with AS WELL.

For now though, we are talking about scroungers on benefits who could work but are better off by not doing so because of the benefits system we have in this country.

I bet even the pikeys find a way to claim a fortune here too!

[Tiberius Onklevaart]

fact is that they DO have 4 kids and are unable to support them - what would you do??

[Tiberius Onklevaart]

[Robbie8666]

I must admit I do know of people that are part like I described and just merged them together!

[Gingernutz]

Good to see even the liberal lot on here won't argue with the concept. £35k for doing foc all is criminal. Did you see the 'example' on TV they dragged out to say it wasn't fair my taxes should keep her in a house that looked a lot nicer than mine cos she doesn't want to move away from her firends? Foc off you sponging twat. The people who are paying for your lifestyle have to move house to find work.
Andy - I know this is only £250M - but thats enough money to run a large NHS Trust for a year. As for tax dodgers I have another idea.
In 1985 in Ireland they brought in a rule whereby if you shopped a tax dodger you got 10% of his back taxes. I reckon this would go down a storm.

[VNA]

Tax dodging, billions upon billions of pounds of it, is legal in the UK.  And that ain't gonna change. 

A saving of 250 million, which is somewhat optimistic, by comparison, is a drop in the ocean.

it wasn't fair my taxes should keep her in a house that looked a lot nicer than mine cos she doesn't want to move away

She doesn't get the cash.  The landlord does.  Good old Tory policy.  Your taxes go straight to the rich Tories.  And that, my friends, ain't gonna change.

Foc off you sponging twat.

Np foc off you Tory sponging bastards.

[adeejaysdelight]

She doesn't get the cash.  The landlord does. 


Wrong, wrong, wrong. I am a landlord. I once rented one of my flats out to my ex-mate of 26 years, who is a dole-scum-good-for-nothing. The "social" as we call them in Glasgow (Jobseekers, benefit people...) paid the rent money to him, which he was in turn to pay to me. The do noy pay the landlord directly. They do this in order to give some sence of resposability to to worthless scum they are supporting. Make them feel like they are part of it. I once went along with my ex-mate to meet his assigned worker. She did not know I was the landlord. He told her he was hard-up for money. She told him to keep the rent money as the landlord could do nothing about it for 3 months, and even after that, the court costs are so high that most don't bother chasing it, they just evict you and we'll get you another flat. Needless to say my ex-mate Fuc**d off with 4 months rent money, left my flat a stinking mess, and left me to sort all the bills and pay the mortgage. So don't give me all that pi*h about wealthy landlords. Go speak to one and get your facts straight.

[oldmotherfoccer]

She did not know I was the landlord. He told her he was hard-up for money. She told him to keep the rent money as the landlord could do nothing about it for 3 months, and even after that, the court costs are so high that most don't bother chasing it, they just evict you and we'll get you another flat.

that is happening in Doncaster to a mate of ours, he rents his dads house out to 2 girls on social, at xmas they got the money from social but asked if there was anymore money as they has bills to pay and presents to buy, they told them to not pay the landlord all the money, keep what they needed to pay for other things, as it would be more hassle than it was worth to chase them for the money and the landlord could claim it back at £5 per week !!!!!!!!! (he is not a rich tory, his dad is in care, and he cannot leave the house empty it will get broken into, or sell it, as his father will not let it be sold, so he thought he would rent it out

[Tiberius Onklevaart]

VAN. it used to be that dss rent would go to landlord In glasgow but its now changed as dj delight says. Kinda screws the landlord cos they used to advertise as no dss even tho they were guaranteed the cash. not so now

[DILLIGAFF]

In the "bad" old days, if you had a child outside of marriage or an unexpected pregnancy it was socially frowned upon and the mother and child had to live with the parents and make do............................. = deterrent


Nowadays under age girls are almost encouraged to get pregnant and then given a nice council house and handouts............... + reward.


The government has a policy of trying to increase the input to the taxation pot.
Immigration and an increase in births are a good way to do this if all the extra citizens get jobs and pay taxes. Unfortunately this is not always the case and as a previous poster noted there must be something wrong when people can get money from the system when they have never paid anything in???


Delboys manifesto.........


1. Leave school with no qualifications (because you were too busy doing drugs)............................ NO DOLE.
2. Commit any criminal offence while on social security..................................................................... NO MORE DOLE
3. Immigrants, get convicted of any criminal offence in your first 3 years here.................................. DEPORTED
4. Social security payments to be for 12 months then require a strict review and proof of job applications before renewal.
5. Set up workshops where the unemployed could be utilised for the production of anything rather than doing nothing. However menial this may be it would help to develop a work ethic and encourage them to seek more fulfilling employment.
6.  Pay benefits with vouchers and NOT cash.

[pitternator]

Your point number 1 is actually extremely offensive. Just because some kids leave school with no qualifications does not make them drug addicts. You make yerself a fool to say that. Not everyone is capable of passing written exams. Often they have good vocational skills, but due to dyslexia or other problems cannot put their thoughts and ideas onto paper.They simplycannot pass exams of th etraditional kind..Maybe leave this sort of thing to eductional professionals??...who know what they R talking about.

generally this government R doing a fine job of loading the blame for all the countries woes onto the poor, the uneducated and the unemployed. Nice as it shifts attention away from the rich and the banks !..let alone the insane cost of the last 10 yrs spend on wars and defence...

[chilly]

WHY IS THE BASTARD CHURCH GETTING INVOLVED? JUST FUCKING WELL FUCK RIGHT OFF YOU BUNCH OF KIDDY FIDDLING BASTARDS!!!!!!!! THE JEREMY KYLE CLASSES SHOULD BE TRIMMED TO THE BONE IN THE FINANCIAL SENSE BUT IM SURE SOME CASES ARE GENUINE AND THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN ARE NOW UP SHIT CREEK SANS PADDLE. I GET SO ANGRY COS I HAVE LOST MY JOB THROUGH REDUNDANCY AND COMPANY RELOCATION FOUR TIMES IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS. WE MANAGED TO GET THROUGH BECAUSE I WENT OUT AND FOUND WORK. I CAN PROUDLY SAY I NEVER CLAIMED A BEAN FROM MY FELLOW TAX PAYERS. WE ENDED UP IN DEBT AND NOW HAVE NO SAVINGS BUT ARE BACK IN THE BLACK (JUST) THERE ARE JOBS OUT THERE IF THE SCROUNGING BASTARDS WOULD LOOK :grumble

[adeejaysdelight]

She did not know I was the landlord. He told her he was hard-up for money. She told him to keep the rent money as the landlord could do nothing about it for 3 months, and even after that, the court costs are so high that most don't bother chasing it, they just evict you and we'll get you another flat.

that is happening in Doncaster to a mate of ours, he rents his dads house out to 2 girls on social, at xmas they got the money from social but asked if there was anymore money as they has bills to pay and presents to buy, they told them to not pay the landlord all the money, keep what they needed to pay for other things, as it would be more hassle than it was worth to chase them for the money and the landlord could claim it back at £5 per week !!!!!!!!! (he is not a rich tory, his dad is in care, and he cannot leave the house empty it will get broken into, or sell it, as his father will not let it be sold, so he thought he would rent it out

I own 3 properties, one of which I live in. I have worked damn had for everything I have. Born with nothing and I still have most of it left  :lol . I have only rented out to DSS once, and that was because it was to my mate of 26 years, and he still fuc**d me. People who get things for free take no pride in them.


I would NEVER rent to a jobless dole scum again. Recently I advertised my pad for rent on gumtree, clearly stating NO DSS. Still, these F**king idiots email asking if I will take DSS, or why I won't take DSS. I say, "Because you are a worthless piece of sh*t and I would feel physically ill every time I had to come see you to get my rent money. Plus I would probably have to fumigate my house when you move out, because you are so fuc**ng lazy you won't lift a bone-idle finger to clean the place. Now f**k off and get a job and stop using the internet to see what you can get out the system form free..."


As you can tell, I have a chip on my shoulder about these people. But I'm ok with that, because I pay around £800 PCM in TAX and NI, and I think that entitles me to have an opinion. I paid for it. And if anyone has a beef with thet, they can f**k right off too.


Ahh, I feel much better

[Tiberius Onklevaart]

Are you In or around glasgow dj? I'm looking. I must warn you tho, I get a government payout every fortnight

[BBROWN1664]

:rollin

Many years ago BC (before children) we used to rent out rooms in our house to help pay the bills when I was a lowly apprentice. At that time the DSS paid the landlords direct but didn't pay it all. You still had to chase the people for the rest. In the end I would tell the DSS the rent was £10a week more than it was to get the lot from them instead as it was painful getting cash out of dope heads and drunks who would get their money one day and it would be pissed up the wall by the end of the day,
I lived in the house so it wasn't too difficult to control. I wouldn't have taken DSS people if I didn't live there though as simple things like cleaning the feccin cooker after they spilled crap all over it was hard enough when you saw then a few times a week!

[VNA]

She doesn't get the cash.  The landlord does. 

 
Wrong, wrong, wrong. I am a landlord.

So you have all my tax money!  :eek  The bulk of the cash is intended for the Landlord.  How it gets there, or doesn't, I never commented on.

But what we have is tax payers forking out for inflated rents paid to people with money invested in property.  This all comes back to Maggie selling off the council stock, the privatisation of the welfare state.

Meanwhile non of you care or want to do anything about the big money, the 100's billions pounds evey year that rich people avoid in taxation every single year.  The kind of money that can get this country out of the mess that's it 's in.

And here's another thought for you all.  There was a nice picture of Crazy Dave Cameron at Asda's head quarters in my paper today surrounded by Asda staff.  Apparently Asda is spending 500 million on an expansion programme and creating 6000 jobs.  Great news what?  Now I'm wondering what this expansion is, but assuming it's within their usual retail business model, well that means 6000 low paid jobs, just above the minimum wage but below the living wage.  Therefore it's another 6000 jobs that the tax payer will have to subsidise with welfare payments.
Why the hell do we continue to put up with subsidising the wage bill of stinking rich national and international companies?    Is it not about time people in full time employment were paid a living wage, particularly when they are employed by a multi million/billion pound business. 
The whole system is fucked, and nobody has any intention of doing anything about it. 

Delboys manifesto.........

And yes one government policy for pulling the wool over our eyes is to run the agenda.  Favourites are welfare, immigration, human rights, anything that with the help of the rich press barons will keep us from wising up to how the economy really works, and who it works for.  Divide and rule.

In the "bad" old days, if you had a child outside of marriage or an unexpected pregnancy it was socially frowned upon and the mother and child had to live with the parents and make do............................. = deterrent

In the bad old days girls that got pregnant outside of marriage were considered to be mentally ill, after the child was taken from them at birth they were then placed in mental asylums were many remained for the rest of their lives.