BREXIT

[VNA]

You only 'win' if you have more than all of your combined opposition. Only then can you dictate outcomes. Otherwise you are powerless.

Sorry that’s nonsense.


The winner in politics is the party with the biggest share of the vote, or the largest number of seats.  Clearly, winning, and to what extent you win, depends on the electoral system.


Nobody wins a General Election in the UK on the basis of “you have more than all of your combined opposition.” in terms of share of the vote.  You win on the basis of having won more seats than “all of your combined opposition”



The EU elections, just as the Scottish elections, are not run on the first past the vote system.  What you are saying, logically is that nobody ever wins, expect the SNP who did the impossible in 2011.


Which is of course, part of the problem with BREXIT.  It is a clash between referendum and a representative democracy, in this case a first past the post representative democracy.


Democracy should not be about “dictate”.  But then we have in the UK an electoral system that is designed to produce doctoral governments over 4 or 5 years. 



Meanwhile we face the prospect of a small and ageing Tory membership choosing our next Prime Minister.  Can that in any way be called democratic in a national sense?

[VNA]

So yes;
The BREXIT Party won the 2019 EU elections.  But that does not mean there is a majority right now in the UK for BREXIT, and there is most certainly no majority for a NO DEAL BREXIT.

[mtread]

Sorry that’s nonsense.
The winner in politics is the party with the biggest share of the vote, or the largest number of seats. 

No it isn't. If the combined opposition(s) have more than you they can form a coalition government, and hey presto, you are the opposition, without power. Then you're 'win' disappears. It's happened often.


So Corbyn wants a softer Brexit, and Hammond suggests a second referendum as a solution. Strange days  :rolleyes


And who the hell is Mark Harper?!

[Oldgit]

Trump for leadership of the Tory Party.

[Grahamm]

Jacob Rees-Mogg is objecting to Boris Johnson being taken to court for lying during the Referendum campaign because “It is trying to use the courts to achieve a political end which, I think, is neither right or proper."

Of course when his father took the government to court to try to block the Maastricht Treaty, that was *entirely* different...!  :rollin

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/re...88238.html

[VNA]

No it isn't. If the combined opposition(s) have more than you they can form a coalition government, and hey presto, you are the opposition, without power. Then you're 'win' disappears. It's happened often.

No because the party with the biggest share of the vote, which in turns means the biggest number of seats, is by rule allowed the first opportunity of forming a government.  They can either do this, as Labour have done in Scotland, by forming a coalition.  Or as the SNP choose to do in 2006 and 2016, they can form a minority government.


The opposition, can then, choose to block every policy of the minority government, if it wishes to do so.  However, the simple fact is, that politicians are elected to serve.  Opposing every move of an elected minority administration would lead to dead-lock and another election – an election in which the opposition would be decimated.  That generally does not happen, as in Scotland’s case we have 5 main political parties (not 2 as in England) plus independents.  There are always deals to be done.


What you are doing is basing your view on the Westminster system.  We laugh in Scotland when English commentators talk about a hung parliament as if it is the end of the world. 



Ms May herself as failed to understand her own position.  English people are conditioned to the 4 or 5 year dictatorial government system.  May failed to recognise that she was in fact running a minority administration (that is after throwing her majority away).  To successfully run a minority administration, you have to work with the opposition to obtain consensus in order to govern. 



What we are seeing is a failure of the first past the post system, and a political class that do not understand how to govern when it does not produce the result it is designed to produce.


The fact is that Scotland, like most of Europe, does not run a first past the post system.  As such coalition and minority government is the norm, as is politicians working across party lines to deliver policy and change. 

[mtread]

The UK had a referendum in 2011 about proportional representation for Westminster.
Scotland voted against it 64% to 36%

[VNA]

Of course, the Scottish Parliament building was chosen by Westminster.
The electoral system was imposed on us by Westminster.
And it was done so in order that no one party could ever win a majority in the Scottish Parliament.
In that same year that the UK rejected electoral reform at Westminster, the SNP won a majority in the Scottish Parliament.

[fazersharp]

Trump for leadership of the Tory Party.

agreed

[VNA]

Boris is your man then

[VNA]

[VNA]

Foccing brilliant :lol

[YamFazFan]

Why are people so determined to wreck our economy.  Why are so many ordinary people in England and Wales desperate to be poorer?

Try asking Corbyn & Khan re The USA and the special relationship

[Oldgit]

VNA I think you have been brainwashed by the Labour Party--you are putting up ridiculous postings that are complete efin rubbish pal.

[mtread]

Try asking Corbyn & Khan re The USA and the special relationship

When Trump is gone (soon) it'll be back on track 

[fazersharp]

[quote author=VNA link=topic=24678.msg298451#msg298451 date=1559081522]
Why are people so determined to wreck our economy.  Why are so many ordinary people in England and Wales desperate to be poorer?

Try asking Corbyn & Khan re The USA and the special relationship
[/quote]You can add Emily Thornberry to that list - she is spiting bile about Trump at anyone who will point a camera at her. Corbin is an embarrassment. 

[YamFazFan]

They're entitled to their opinion.


The problem is that they don't think anyone who disagrees with them is entitled to theirs :rolleyes

[YamFazFan]

Try asking Corbyn & Khan re The USA and the special relationship

When Trump is gone (soon) it'll be back on track 

I wouldn't be surprised if Trump wins a second term. He's popular with the electorate.


How much economic pain would we have to suffer if Corbyn gets his hands on the keys to number 10 in the not too distant future?.

[fazersharp]

Meanwhile "Anna Soubry has become leader of Change UK after six MPs quit the party.The newly formed party split as high-profile figures like Chuka Umunna and ex-leader Heidi Allen walked out."
And Nigel farage meets with Trump like a proper soon to be PM - unlike Corbin. 

[VNA]

Meanwhile "Anna Soubry has become leader of Change UK after six MPs quit the party.The newly formed party split as high-profile figures like Chuka Umunna and ex-leader Heidi Allen walked out."

Wow.  That went well.  Wonder how long The Brexit Party will last?


Aye and for Remainers, those folks sure do a lot of leaving!