Quote::eek I think that's the first time I have actually heard Remainers admit this! What's up lads, batteries in your crystal balls run out? :lol
But this is exactly what I predicted. Or rather I predicted that, further down the line, BREXIT will not happen and we will continue as fully paid up members – though obviously that’s what I want – it’s still a strong possibility. I don’t think BREXIT is possible – of cours, I may be about to find out I am wrong.
Quote:im also unashamedly patriotic, believe in god and country etc.
I don’t see what any of that has to do with it OGRI. Do God fearing people want their country to be poorer? Do patriots want their patriotic elected representatives to vote against their own conscience and belief, to vote with Boris and Jacob, and against the best interest of their constituents?
To be fair to May (and I find that very difficult) she was up shit street whatever option /proposal /result she came up with.
(14-11-18, 08:09 PM)VNA link Wrote: Quote:That the democratic decision be not only respected, but that everybody pulled together to make it work.
But that is precisely where the problem lies.
Firstly it is a referendum that should have never happened. It happened because the Tories offered it as a means to unite their party and kill UKIP – and it worked. They won the general election.
In terms of making it work,
Putting aside the disastrous campaign (LEAVE – absolute lies REMAIN – absolute fear) – nobody actually knew what BREXIT was – or rather what shape it would take. That came after the vote – when asked May told us it would be – a red white and blue BREXIT (ie she didn’t have a clue).
She then focced up by going to the electorate – she did so in order to avoid the very situation that she is in now. But that didn’t work – and as a result she is in the hands of the DUP and parliament as a whole. And anyway the Tories might be in government – by the skin of their teeth – but they are split and out of control.
But ultimately what you are asking the majority of MP’s in parliament to do OGRI is to vote to implement something that they wholeheartedly and absolutely believe is not in the best interests of their constituents or the country as a whole.
And then there is Ireland.
David Cameron offered you this referendum cos he knew the country would reject BREXIT. He was so confident he never even bothered to consider the consequences, should he turn out to be wrong. Doh! Doh doh doh doh!
I believe these may well be the first few days of a country in a full-blown crisis. I hope not, but it’s looking like it.
(14-11-18, 08:09 PM)VNA link Wrote: Quote:That the democratic decision be not only respected, but that everybody pulled together to make it work.
But that is precisely where the problem lies.
Firstly it is a referendum that should have never happened. It happened because the Tories offered it as a means to unite their party and kill UKIP – and it worked. They won the general election.
In terms of making it work,
Putting aside the disastrous campaign (LEAVE – absolute lies REMAIN – absolute fear) – nobody actually knew what BREXIT was – or rather what shape it would take. That came after the vote – when asked May told us it would be – a red white and blue BREXIT (ie she didn’t have a clue).
She then focced up by going to the electorate – she did so in order to avoid the very situation that she is in now. But that didn’t work – and as a result she is in the hands of the DUP and parliament as a whole. And anyway the Tories might be in government – by the skin of their teeth – but they are split and out of control.
But ultimately what you are asking the majority of MP’s in parliament to do OGRI is to vote to implement something that they wholeheartedly and absolutely believe is not in the best interests of their constituents or the country as a whole.
And then there is Ireland.
David Cameron offered you this referendum cos he knew the country would reject BREXIT. He was so confident he never even bothered to consider the consequences, should he turn out to be wrong. Doh! Doh doh doh doh!
I believe these may well be the first few days of a country in a full-blown crisis. I hope not, but it’s looking like it. but it did happen mate.
Quote:To be fair to May (and I find that very difficult) she was up shit street whatever option /proposal /result she came up with.
Agree.
truth is fellers, we all got focced. Good job we got our bikes huh 
(14-11-18, 12:07 AM)mtread link Wrote: I've just fainted..... :eek
Just to clarify. I've not experienced a Road To Damascus Epiphany or such like.
It's a pragmatic descion. Like I said before, it's a very reluctant one with no great enthusiasm that's based on how things stand at the moment.
They're saying this deal is, and will be, the only one offered. In that case we're better off staying in. At least then we get to keep the good bits such as the EHIC cards etc...
The whole thing is about pragmatism. Nothing is perfect, and the EU certainly isn't. But to keep the good bits you need to accept the bad bits. Then change it from within.
If the SNP is smart, they will be manoeuvring behind the scenes to back Brexit (they cannot be seen to be doing this). That way, they'll be able to call for another independence referendum, which will go massively in their favour. An independent Scotland will be able to waltz back into the arms of the EU.
(15-11-18, 11:16 AM)mtread link Wrote: The whole thing is about pragmatism.
You'd expect it to be so I suppose. The EU is more akin to a cult or a religion to those protesters that were trying to drown out Huw Edwards on The Six O'clock News last night though. I wanted to hear what he'd got to say about the developments that were just breaking as he spoke, but you could barely catch a word he was saying :rolleyes .
Just been listening to prime ministers question time seems to me that no matter whether they are labour or conservative members house, it seems most think this is a bad deal and we are being sold down the river. For those of you in London can some one confirm the Union Jack is still flying over Parliament not a white flag.
Actually we're off to London this evening. Been told to avoid Parliament Square as Jacob Rees-Mogg has just exploded 
They all seem on a short fuse which ever side of the fence or party they sit, talk about lions led by donkeys god help us as that shower in parliament don't seem to have a clue.
(14-11-18, 08:09 PM)VNA link Wrote: Quote:That the democratic decision be not only respected, but that everybody pulled together to make it work.
But that is precisely where the problem lies.
Firstly it is a referendum that should have never happened. It happened because the Tories offered it as a means to unite their party and kill UKIP – and it worked. They won the general election.
In terms of making it work,
Putting aside the disastrous campaign (LEAVE – absolute lies REMAIN – absolute fear) – nobody actually knew what BREXIT was – or rather what shape it would take. That came after the vote – when asked May told us it would be – a red white and blue BREXIT (ie she didn’t have a clue).
She then focced up by going to the electorate – she did so in order to avoid the very situation that she is in now. But that didn’t work – and as a result she is in the hands of the DUP and parliament as a whole. And anyway the Tories might be in government – by the skin of their teeth – but they are split and out of control.
But ultimately what you are asking the majority of MP’s in parliament to do OGRI is to vote to implement something that they wholeheartedly and absolutely believe is not in the best interests of their constituents or the country as a whole.
And then there is Ireland.
David Cameron offered you this referendum cos he knew the country would reject BREXIT. He was so confident he never even bothered to consider the consequences, should he turn out to be wrong. Doh! Doh doh doh doh!
I believe these may well be the first few days of a country in a full-blown crisis. I hope not, but it’s looking like it.
Had everyone respected the decision, then things may have turned out differently. As it is, the splits into several factions destroyed any semblance of national unity and its this that has signalled to the EU that we are weak nation, ready to be shafted, our political leaders having no authority, the blairites that have been hiding at the bottom of the pond are ready to resurface and move Corbyn out, Rees Bogg ready to step up when the PM goes. Worst constitutional crisis in living memory. And all because you lost in a perfectly fair ballot, but couldnt accept the result.
Shame on you
Quote:If the SNP is smart, they will be manoeuvring behind the scenes to back Brexit (they cannot be seen to be doing this).
Well no. They don’t back BREXIT politically, and in fact 63% of Scots voted to REMAIN. The single market is essential to Scotland’s economy, and particularly so as Scotland has significant and growing tourism industry which for many years now has relied on seasonal European labour.
Scotland can’t support the customs union deal as we need free movement.
Quote:That way, they'll be able to call for another independence referendum, which will go massively in their favour.
I wouldn’t be so sure. It might, it might not. Certainly, many Scots are well peeved at this BREXIT mess that has been forced upon us by England. But then there are many within the SNP who want BREXIT, and then there is the tribal aspect of Scottish politics – the Union Jack Waving God Save the Queen Unionists – who will never ever support independence.
I mean how many Tory governments that we didn’t vote for have we endured?
The SNP would never be forgiven by anybody for gambling our whole economy in the hope of a good indy 2 result.
Quote:An independent Scotland will be able to waltz back into the arms of the EU.
The most important thing for Scotland is the here and now, we can’t afford to leave the Single Market.
But what’s happening right now is though Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to REMAIN in the EU and Scotland desperately wants to at least remain in the single market, the DUP does not. Northern Ireland will under this deal remain in the customs union but will also remain in much of the single market for goods. So the DUP gets what it doesn’t want and the SNP doesn’t get what it wants.
All the European nations must think we are all absolutely mad. :lol
(15-11-18, 06:51 PM)VNA link Wrote: All the European nations must think we are all absolutely mad. :lol
They will if we accept May's deal.
Quote:They will if we accept May's deal.
May is something of a survivor. But how much longer?
Her government is in ruins, the deal is dead in the water and pariamentary defeat looms.
She sure puts a brave face on it.
(15-11-18, 07:21 PM)VNA link Wrote: May is something of a survivor. But how much longer?
Her government is in ruins, the deal is dead in the water and pariamentary defeat looms.
She sure puts a brave face on it.
What choice does she have? Can you see her coming up with a deal that everyone will be happy with? She must be feeling quite resigned to her fate.
I have come to the conclusion that the UK cannot do an acceptable deal with the EU. The only reason the EU stays in the negotiations must be that they are hoping to gain complete jurisdiction over all the UK's affairs. To me, that will always be unacceptable.
NO DEAL!
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