05-11-13, 09:57 PM
(This post was last modified: 06-11-13, 12:23 AM by nick crisp.)
Some thoughts on debris left behind by climbers/mountaineers.
There have been one or two attempts to clear the mountain of debris over the last ten years or so, but as one can imagine, it's never going to be an easy task. It requires trained climbers (mountaineers?) with plenty of experience to carry out such a task, and of course even such people place themselves at extreme risk to do so. Given the risks, and the very short windows of opportunity regarding good weather just to get in a decent attempt at the summit, the time that would be required to bring down all the abandoned tents, discarded oxygen cylinders, clear fixed ropes and cart down all the other accumulated debris left behind by countless teams and individuals who have made attempts on the mountain over the years - I feel it would be nigh-on impossible. A clean-up team itself would be likely to add to the rubbish that they were there to collect.
And who would do it? The many westerners who travel to the Himalayan countries to climb there often save every penny for years, or have to accumulate sufficient sponsorship to be able to afford the huge costs of such trips. Most of them have to apply for climbing permits to climb any route they may want to tackle, and permits for Everest are always much in demand - and limited. Who of these would wish to "waste" a trip to those regions, never to be able to try for the summit? And even if the Nepalese or Chinese governments offered to pay people to do it, how would you get a large enough team together for sufficient time, at the right time (bearing in mind climbers often wait for weeks for that elusive weather window, just to attempt the summit), as of course, all these climbers have commitments outside of their climbing trips too?
Well, what of using local manpower, one might ask? But is it morally acceptable to ask others to risk their lives to clear up the mess left by visitors from other, wealthier countries? Bearing in mind that such local people would still require all the skills of the climbers aforementioned, limiting still further the pool of those qualified and experienced enough to try such a thing.
As for the abandoned equipment itself, wouldn't the mountain clear itself of most of this alone? Tents and other kit are ripped from it's flanks by the storms that whip the mountain frequently. Avalanches take down and bury more. Some of it may well turn up at the foot of a glacier some years later, where it will much easier to get to, to remove. Not ideal but.....
To climb such a mountain, humans need this equipment. They cannot survive such extremes without it, and even with it, they are still risking life and limb, even if they are not making a summit attempt, but may be just porters or other members of the summit team support. Lives have been lost just negotiating the approaches, with the tortured ice-falls with their mazes of crevasses and toppling seracs, heavily laden snow slopes, and the potential of rock-fall from crumbling, weathered cliffs.
Of course, there could be a ban on climbing Everest. There have been temporary bans by both the Nepalese and Chinese governments in the past. But then we get into the arguments over the rights and freedoms of people to travel, to go where they choose, to see the wonders of nature this planet has to offer. Like you, VNA, I am (or was) only a walker of small hills here in the UK, how would we feel if we were told that Ben Nevis, or Snowdon, or Scafell were to be forever off limits, because people could not be trusted with their litter? I'm sure that you would agree this would not be the way to go.
Banning climbing (and indeed, trekking) in such regions would also have a devastating effect on the local economies. Such "sports" have transformed many lives for the better, building and equipping schools, constructing and maintaining transport and communication links, and improving medical care and facilities for communities who were once virtually completely cut off from the outside world. And it may be said that perhaps that is how they should have remained, without the degrading monetary interests of the wealthy, developed nations to corrupt them. But you can't now turn back the clock.
And if you ban people from one mountain, won't they just go elsewhere, and create the same or similar problems there?
I am of the same mind as has been expressed here - take your rubbish with you, and leave little or no evidence of your passing. Trekkers have no excuse as they are not going into places (generally speaking) where they place their lives at risk just by being there. But we are but individuals who can easily carry away in much friendlier climes what we bring with us. On the flanks of the world's great peaks, it is much more problematic.
Ok, got caught out by further posts as I was trying to put this little spiel together ( :lol ), but only one more thing - Unfazed, when you say you cleared up the rubbish you created, did your team attempt the summit, or reach any significant height above Base Camp? And if so, did they manage to leave nothing behind on the mountain's flanks?
Comments?
There have been one or two attempts to clear the mountain of debris over the last ten years or so, but as one can imagine, it's never going to be an easy task. It requires trained climbers (mountaineers?) with plenty of experience to carry out such a task, and of course even such people place themselves at extreme risk to do so. Given the risks, and the very short windows of opportunity regarding good weather just to get in a decent attempt at the summit, the time that would be required to bring down all the abandoned tents, discarded oxygen cylinders, clear fixed ropes and cart down all the other accumulated debris left behind by countless teams and individuals who have made attempts on the mountain over the years - I feel it would be nigh-on impossible. A clean-up team itself would be likely to add to the rubbish that they were there to collect.
And who would do it? The many westerners who travel to the Himalayan countries to climb there often save every penny for years, or have to accumulate sufficient sponsorship to be able to afford the huge costs of such trips. Most of them have to apply for climbing permits to climb any route they may want to tackle, and permits for Everest are always much in demand - and limited. Who of these would wish to "waste" a trip to those regions, never to be able to try for the summit? And even if the Nepalese or Chinese governments offered to pay people to do it, how would you get a large enough team together for sufficient time, at the right time (bearing in mind climbers often wait for weeks for that elusive weather window, just to attempt the summit), as of course, all these climbers have commitments outside of their climbing trips too?
Well, what of using local manpower, one might ask? But is it morally acceptable to ask others to risk their lives to clear up the mess left by visitors from other, wealthier countries? Bearing in mind that such local people would still require all the skills of the climbers aforementioned, limiting still further the pool of those qualified and experienced enough to try such a thing.
As for the abandoned equipment itself, wouldn't the mountain clear itself of most of this alone? Tents and other kit are ripped from it's flanks by the storms that whip the mountain frequently. Avalanches take down and bury more. Some of it may well turn up at the foot of a glacier some years later, where it will much easier to get to, to remove. Not ideal but.....
To climb such a mountain, humans need this equipment. They cannot survive such extremes without it, and even with it, they are still risking life and limb, even if they are not making a summit attempt, but may be just porters or other members of the summit team support. Lives have been lost just negotiating the approaches, with the tortured ice-falls with their mazes of crevasses and toppling seracs, heavily laden snow slopes, and the potential of rock-fall from crumbling, weathered cliffs.
Of course, there could be a ban on climbing Everest. There have been temporary bans by both the Nepalese and Chinese governments in the past. But then we get into the arguments over the rights and freedoms of people to travel, to go where they choose, to see the wonders of nature this planet has to offer. Like you, VNA, I am (or was) only a walker of small hills here in the UK, how would we feel if we were told that Ben Nevis, or Snowdon, or Scafell were to be forever off limits, because people could not be trusted with their litter? I'm sure that you would agree this would not be the way to go.
Banning climbing (and indeed, trekking) in such regions would also have a devastating effect on the local economies. Such "sports" have transformed many lives for the better, building and equipping schools, constructing and maintaining transport and communication links, and improving medical care and facilities for communities who were once virtually completely cut off from the outside world. And it may be said that perhaps that is how they should have remained, without the degrading monetary interests of the wealthy, developed nations to corrupt them. But you can't now turn back the clock.
And if you ban people from one mountain, won't they just go elsewhere, and create the same or similar problems there?
I am of the same mind as has been expressed here - take your rubbish with you, and leave little or no evidence of your passing. Trekkers have no excuse as they are not going into places (generally speaking) where they place their lives at risk just by being there. But we are but individuals who can easily carry away in much friendlier climes what we bring with us. On the flanks of the world's great peaks, it is much more problematic.
Ok, got caught out by further posts as I was trying to put this little spiel together ( :lol ), but only one more thing - Unfazed, when you say you cleared up the rubbish you created, did your team attempt the summit, or reach any significant height above Base Camp? And if so, did they manage to leave nothing behind on the mountain's flanks?
Comments?