10-06-12, 07:39 PM
Quote:Surveys are like statistics, they can be used selectively to give a false representation of the facts and are consequently unreliable as an indicator of public mood.
[size=1em]Often true. Depends on the question, sample size, so on and so on. But what is clear is that survey after survey is showing real concern.
Frankly the so called 'war on terror' and our current economic woes are nothing compared to the climate related issues that are slowly gathering. And of course you are looking at a whole new generation of technologies, that the whole globe will soon be screaming for, it's a whole new energy market, and it's up for grabs. Do we want to be sellers or buyers? But anyway that's going off at a tangent.
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Quote:[size=1em]Once an in/out referendum is put to the people of Britain we will indeed see democracy in action, until then our views are being held in contempt.[/size]
No you won't, you'll see a zealous right wing press pushing the interests of their wealthy press barron bosses.
Quote:This describes exactly the EU ethos. 'It doesn't matter what you may think, this is the way you will do it - or there will be implications for you'. It's like something from a bad gangster movie.[size=1em]
No if you join a club you get access and you get a say. You can't say, hey I want in and I want full access but I'm not joining and I'm certainly not paying.
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Quote:[size=1em]There are several parallels. How else does one describe a system whereby a sovereign country's laws are thought up and dictated from elsewhere, laws that are enforced rigidly, and by persons unelected by that nation state? Napoleon wanted a united Europe, Hitler did too, yet we fought them both - why?[/size]
Are you a Daily Mail reader? Oh, and time to issue a Godwin's Law alert! Had to happen!
Quote:[size=1em]If Europeans want our services or goods then they will engage them. [/size]
If we pull out, they will avoid em like the plague, and we'll have just pulled the plug on our most important market. And any economist will tell you that your immediate neighbours are often, if not always, your most important trading partners.
Quote:[size=1em]Indeed we did. The fundamental difference is that we were then able to kick them out for failure, an option presented to us each five years.[/size]
Which brings me neatly back to my point. Neither the Euro or the EU (of which has been on the whole a success) is the source of our current woes. It does make a rather good scape goat though! 30 years of pursuing a neo capitalist agenda and ignoring the basic rules of economics are, and you know what, we, or rather England voted for it, we got what we deserved (and Scotland what England gave us).
And running away from the biggest single market in the world (which just happens to be next door!), and just hoping you'll find something else is simply nuts.
And you can quote me on this (help ma boab!), there will be no in/out referendum on EU membership, no, non, zip, nothing, won't happen, certainly not from the main parties, as nobody with half a brain really wants to push the big red self destruct button. It might play well to the public, the right wing press may well love, it might get you elected, get you noticed, but my guess is half these folks would shit their pants if it was really gonna happen.