Electric vehicles vs Internal Combustion...

[Grahamm]

Here's a very interesting video countering the objections that some people have to electric vehicles because of the pollution from generating electricity.

(NB Feel free to discuss this, but *politely*... )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk-LnUYE...e=youtu.be

[Dudeofrude]

That is a very cleverly done video, simple and effective explanation ??

But.... not all of us are woke millenials crying about the planet. Not to put to finer point on it but i couldn't give a shite how much crap my vehicles pump out ?‍♂️ when I go to buy a car or motorbike I buy based on desire, price, mod cons, looks etc as I'm sure the vast majority of people from my era and above do.

All of that aside the amount either of them damage the world is not the issue, charging is.
Until they can create an EV that charges in minutes and goes at least 200miles from that charge, they'll never get people to adopt it.
Also there's the actual issue with where to charge it. Fine of you live in a nice semi detached house with a drive way where you can fit a plug. But what about the people that live in terraced houses or places that are so congested that you might have to park 3 streets away from your house?
If they fixed that side of thing I'm sure they would be many more people to start buying them rather than trying (as usual) to lecture and guilt them into it by harping on about saving the planet

[agricola]

Internal combustion engines are so efficient and reliable these days. When i first passed my test in 70, I was under the bonnet most weekends. Park up at night, there was a heap of rust in its place in the morning. Motors cna go 100,000 + miles easily with no major problems, and emissions are a fraction of what they were. I still to see a battery pack for the biggest polluters on the road, HGVs, or aircraft

[b1k3rdude]

The main and simple immutable fact that the government, big companies and anyone else who is pro EV is forgetting is that the UK energy grid DOES NOT have the capacity to supply the demand let alone the cabling or infrastructure to service the demand.

• The National Grid has for years been running close to or at capacity - that what has resulted in all these brown-outs we have all witness over the last few years.
  
• A while back a Royal-mail depot wanted to go all electric and its just wasn't possible due to there not being enough capacity on the 2 nearest substations, never mind that the cabling wasn't capable of carrying the capacity required. And because the depot was in a town, upgrading said infrastructure just wasn't financially feasible.
  
• That and can you see the UK gov somehow magically upgrading the electricity grid and installing all the charge points we would need in 10 years?
  

Long story short, WTF are the government playing at exactly? other than trying to create a cluster fuck of the worst kind.

[mtread]

The trouble is it's inevitable. Advances in battery and charging technology will overcome the current issues.


Fortunately, there are no plans to make electric motorcycles compulsory. Mind you, finding a petrol station in the future might be difficult...

[Grahamm]

Until they can create an EV that charges in minutes and goes at least 200miles from that charge, they'll never get people to adopt it.

Also there's the actual issue with where to charge it.

Paraphrasing what someone once said "Why should I buy one of these new fangled automobiles and have to worry about finding gasoline for it when I can buy hay for my horse anywhere."

If they fixed that side of thing I'm sure they would be many more people to start buying them rather than trying (as usual) to lecture and guilt them into it by harping on about saving the planet

It's a chicken and egg situation, unless governments start building infrastructure (or offer tax breaks for manufacturers to do it), people won't buy the vehicles...

Of course if people just keep to a selfish "I'm alright, Jack" attitude and not worry about the damage they're causing to the environment and leave the mess for their children (or other people's children) to sort out, things won't improve either.

[Grahamm]

Internal combustion engines are so efficient and reliable these days.

Reliable, generally.

Efficient?! Nope! 70% of the energy is wasted in heat and noise and, of course, pushing a piston up and down, having to reverse its direction on every stroke!

At least the Wankel Rotary Engine tried to improve matters, which it did somewhat, but they had their own issues, hence never became mass market.

[Grahamm]

the UK energy grid DOES NOT have the capacity[/u][/b] to supply the demand let alone the cabling or infrastructure to service the demand.

Here's what the National Grid has to say about that:

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero/5-myths-about-electric-vehicles-busted

Now, whilst you may argue that they have a vested interest in saying that, ask yourself, *where* are the "The National Grid Can't Cope" stories coming from?

Be certain that they're not being pushed by the motor industry or fuel companies who have a vested interest in keeping their income streams going...

[Grahamm]

Fortunately, there are no plans to make electric motorcycles compulsory.

Electric vehicles won't be "compulsory" by 2035, but ICE ones won't be sold. There won't be any requirement to change to an EV, although I would expect there to be Scrappage schemes.

As yet, regrettably, electric motorbikes are too expensive and the range is too limited, eg I took a look recently out of interest, and they're about £18k with a max 100 mile range (if ridden efficiently, not "spiritedly" ) but that's going to be improved as the technology develops and I wouldn't have any object to getting one then.

[BBROWN1664]

My understanding is that ICE engines will still be around and be being sold. In commercial vehicles and vans and in cars/motorbikes. The only thing for cars/bikes is the ICE wont be the main/sole power source. It will just be a generator to top up the batteries that will drive the wheels.

On the plus side, give it 20 years and my manual bike/van will be safe from thieves as the younger scrotes then will not have a clue about how to start a pure ICE vehicle let alone drive something with a clutch

[b1k3rdude]

• https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero/5-myths-about-electric-vehicles-busted
  
• Now, whilst you may argue that they have a vested interest in saying that, ask yourself, *where* are the "The National Grid Can't Cope" stories coming from?
  

• I wasn't able to immediately see a current capacity and current usage figure, the article seem to present a lot of irrelevant fluff about how good electric cars are and how people use them. Since when did the NG group become electric car experts, I thought their job was electricity transmission. The only figure I saw about capacity was from 2002, so 18 years ago.
  
• How do they/we explane the constant and regular brownouts? I would suggested its logical to assume its because the grid in that area/s has reached capacity?
  

[Grahamm]

Since when did the NG group become electric car experts, I thought their job was electricity transmission.

Well, yes, but if they're going to transmit power, they have to know what is coming in and what is going out!

Here's a live (no pun intended) status report: https://grid.iamkate.com/

How do they/we explane the constant and regular brownouts?

I've been doing some searching, and I can't find anything about these.

Please can you provide some details of these brownouts?

[fazersharp]

Brown outs or black outs are part of the reason for rolling out smart meters because with them they can cut power to single streets at a time and will also have the ability to charge extra at any given hour or minute to discourage use at peak times. Smart meters are evil snooping devices that collect your data. All of the above is the reason they are being pushed down peoples throats with advertising, letters and phone calls with their "Help you save electricity" BS.     

[agricola]

Grid capacity has to be a serious concern. I live 5 miles as the crow flies from one of the old inefficient coal fired giants (due to be de-commissioned in 2025). Its operational status is "standby". Over the last 3 years or so, i have noticed that whenever we have a chilly snap (i wont say cold since I have experienced "cold"), they have to fire it up. The recent chilly snap, it has been on every day, temperature above freezing. The weak winds and chilly snap indicate to this humble citizen that the privatised generators and suppliers have simply not invested in capacity, preferring instead to salt us and boost profits. If greater capacity is to be created it will involve huge amounts of public money

[Grahamm]

Brown outs or black outs are part of the reason for rolling out smart meters because with them they can cut power to single streets at a time

Do you actually have any citatations of examples of this having happened?

Smart meters are evil snooping devices that collect your data.

Yes, I'm aware of that, which is why I've not got one, however that isn't the subject under discussion.

[BBROWN1664]

[quote author=fazersharp link=topic=26750.msg323618#msg323618 date=1614797870]
Brown outs or black outs are part of the reason for rolling out smart meters because with them they can cut power to single streets at a time

Do you actually have any citatations of examples of this having happened?
[/quote]

The technology can do it - I am not aware it has been used yet but the capability is there should the need arise.

[fazersharp]

[quote author=Grahamm link=topic=26750.msg323626#msg323626 date=1614819491]
[quote author=fazersharp link=topic=26750.msg323618#msg323618 date=1614797870]
Brown outs or black outs are part of the reason for rolling out smart meters because with them they can cut power to single streets at a time

Do you actually have any citatations of examples of this having happened?
[/quote]

The technology can do it - I am not aware it has been used yet but the capability is there should the need arise.
[/quote]Yep so far as I can tell it has not yet been used but as said the capability is built into the meters. And if it were to be used before everyone has one fitted then no one would want one fitted. 

[mtread]

Brown outs or black outs are part of the reason for rolling out smart meters because with them they can cut power to single streets at a time

They can do that already. It's called Powergen digging up the road 


As to smart meters allowing them to vary prices during peaks, again we've had that for years. It's called Economy 7. And it makes sense. Most electricity generation is 24/7 such as wind, hydro and nuclear. So when demand drops, daytime industry stops using it, we turn off our electric kettles and TVs, it makes sense to encourage off peak usage by lowering prices.

[fazersharp]

[quote='mtread link' pid='678853' dateline='1614871116']

[font=Verdana][size=x-small]
As to smart meters allowing them to vary prices during peaks, again we've had that for years. It's called Economy 7.

That is fixed 7 hours at night on your tariff. I am talking instant and variable hiking the price up at any time. Sharp Hall used to be on economy 7 but you pay a far higher standing charge than a normal 24 hour rate. Was alright for a while but didnt pay off in the end as they krept the standing charge up.   

[BBROWN1664]

As to smart meters allowing them to vary prices during peaks, again we've had that for years. It's called Economy 7. And it makes sense. Most electricity generation is 24/7 such as wind, hydro and nuclear. So when demand drops, daytime industry stops using it, we turn off our electric kettles and TVs, it makes sense to encourage off peak usage by lowering prices.

In France they have a system that will be bought in over here at some point relating to the Red White and Blue days. On certain days through the year you are charged a higher rate (red days) or a lower rate (blue days) than your normal rates. They also have an equivalent of Economy 7 for overnight cheap rate too. With their equivalent of the smart meter (The Linky meter) it enables them to bill you for exactly what you have used during the cheap rate (or Read/White/Blue days).
Red/White/Blue is used to enchorage you to use less when they know demand will be high. For example, on days they expect high demand from industry meaning less power is available on the grid for consumers or when consumer demand will be higher. They also have the red days on different days of the year in different areas depending on demand.