Bikes died ?☹

[Dudeofrude]

Well following the service manual I managed to test the resistance from the stator coil. The spec was 0.14-0.18 and mine is reading 0.6 across all 3 pins so guessing thats the issue. Going to take the cover off and have a look to see if the magneto is intact ?
But looks like I've got some money to spend before she's back on the road

[Dudeofrude]

My question now is how to do I know if its the stator coil or the magneto flywheel??
If all the magnets are in place on the flywheel then does it have to be the stator coil thats gone?

[Fazian]

I got my gasket here, the packet it came in had a genuine Yamaha sticker on it but it did cost me £16 with postage.


http://www.manhattanmotorcycles.co.uk/p/...se-cover-1

[Fazian]

My question now is how to do I know if its the stator coil or the magneto flywheel??
If all the magnets are in place on the flywheel then does it have to be the stator coil thats gone?

I can't imagine it would be the stator with the magnets attached that would be the problem as this just connects mechanically to the engine and provides the rotation for the coil that produces the current.

[Dudeofrude]

I got my gasket here, the packet it came in had a genuine Yamaha sticker on it but it did cost me £16 with postage.


http://www.manhattanmotorcycles.co.uk/p/...se-cover-1

Cheers for the link ?

[Gnasher]

On the rare occasions I've had to deal with generator issues (not FZ1) it's the coil assembly that's been the problem.  That said there was/is an issue with early models of FZ1 08 - 09 in that the magnets became dislodged from the stator drum and stopped charging and/or destroyed themselves, in extreme cases wrecked the motor.  Yamaha changed the design of the drum and effectively fitted a sleeve to prevent the magnets from dropping, new part No 2SH-81450-00, old part 5VY-81450-00.  Check the part No on yours, if it's the latter, it's very likely this will be your problem and a change of the rotor assembly, could well sort it but wait for it £675 :eek

A contact suggested these https://www.motoelectrical.co.uk/types/s...v6EALw_wcB  £214

Or I found this https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/264477816095?ch...BfEALw_wcB Which is genuine and the later part £370

If it does turn out the rotor assembly is the later type, the coil assembly is then more likely the issue, I'd go for either new £355ish, second hand OE around £150 ish. 

Or you could go pattern part as with any pattern part I would advise caution, that's not to say they're wont work, they will, it's just for how long and often they don't quite always fit as they should!  You've also got wild variation in cost, Wemto part https://www.wemoto.com/bikes/yamaha/fz1_...r_-_stator is £219ish for what looks like the MPW offering https://www.motorcyclepartswarehouse.co....-2012.html which is £46.99 not sure if that's inc VAT but that's a huge difference!

Both are probably Chinese copies, it's your choice. 

If you've not removes a generator assembly before, undo the centre cap but don't undo the 3 small bolts around the cap cover. Undo all the bolts around the cover these are different sizes, now use a a lager Phillips screwdriver or Allen key to push on the stator drive shaft.  This will allow you the remove the coil assembly while keeping the rotor drum in place, it will be very magnetic and require a really good straight pull.  If you allow the rotor drum to be extracted with the cover you run the risk of dropping the shaft spacer and washer into the crankcase.  Even when you do it this way there's still a risk, but much smaller, once you've got the cover off, very smoothly pull the rotor drum out, the drive gear should remain in place.  Now look through the hole in the gear centre, you should see the displaced spacer washer, using the screwdriver/key insert into the gear hole until it stops, now you can pull out the gear, be very careful as behind the washer is the spacer. you should be able to get the gear/washer and spacer onto the screwdriver/key.         

[Dudeofrude]

Thanks for the info Gnasher. Very helpful ?
I've had that £214 one saved for while as its a job I've been meaning to get round to ever since I heard about them failing.
I've watched Andys (andymancam) video of him doing the change and looks simple enough. I'm just waiting for a gasket to show up before I take the cover off for an inspection. I'm guessing that if the flywheel magnets are all still intact then it will have to be the coil thats blown
New battery here Monday so worst case scenario it will have enough power to get it to my mechanic if I can't figure it not myself

[Gnasher]

Your're welcome. 

I'm not an expert at testing of electrical components, I've got people I can call on if I cn't suss it.  One of those contacts suggested following this guide http://https://www.r1-forum.com/threads/...ng.294687/ which should help you identify which of them is giving you the problem, the system here is an R1 but they're the same just follow the values in the FZ1 manual if different.  Obviously you need to be able to understand and use an multi tester.

Good luck let's us know how you get on.

[Dudeofrude]

Well brand new Yuasa battery went in today and still no change. Runs at 12.65v and doesn't change while loading the throttle. So now just waiting for the stator cover gasket to arrive and that will be getting whipped off for an inspection.
At this point I'm more or less sure its going to be the magneto issue that they all seem to suffer from so just hoping the magnets are all they and accounted for so I don't have to go fishing in my sump ?

[BBROWN1664]

daft question time. Have you checked the voltage input on the regulator/rectifier rather than assuming its a generator (coil/magneto issue)? These are known to fail on almost every bike at some point.

[Dudeofrude]

daft question time. Have you checked the voltage input on the regulator/rectifier rather than assuming its a generator (coil/magneto issue)? These are known to fail on almost every bike at some point.

I have to the best of my ability. I'm not 100% sure about the numbers but everything tested came back with consistent readings.
The reason I believe its the rotor is because the bike doesn't get to 14v even while running. From what I've been told that points to the magneto/rotor as the bike is not receiving any charge?

[BBROWN1664]

[quote author=BBROWN1664 link=topic=26287.msg317114#msg317114 date=1593434328]
daft question time. Have you checked the voltage input on the regulator/rectifier rather than assuming its a generator (coil/magneto issue)? These are known to fail on almost every bike at some point.

I have to the best of my ability. I'm not 100% sure about the numbers but everything tested came back with consistent readings.
The reason I believe its the rotor is because the bike doesn't get to 14v even while running. From what I've been told that points to the magneto/rotor as the bike is not receiving any charge?
[/quote]

the regulator/rectifier sits between the coils, which produce AC voltage having had the magnetic field applied and removed rapidly, and the battery, that needs DC voltage.

[Dudeofrude]

[quote author=Dudeofrude link=topic=26287.msg317115#msg317115 date=1593434850]
[quote author=BBROWN1664 link=topic=26287.msg317114#msg317114 date=1593434328]
daft question time. Have you checked the voltage input on the regulator/rectifier rather than assuming its a generator (coil/magneto issue)? These are known to fail on almost every bike at some point.

I have to the best of my ability. I'm not 100% sure about the numbers but everything tested came back with consistent readings.
The reason I believe its the rotor is because the bike doesn't get to 14v even while running. From what I've been told that points to the magneto/rotor as the bike is not receiving any charge?
[/quote]

the regulator/rectifier sits between the coils, which produce AC voltage having had the magnetic field applied and removed rapidly, and the battery, that needs DC voltage.
[/quote]

Yeah i took the rectifier off and tested the points which as I say came back consistent but I've no clue as to whether that means its working properly?

The other reason I'm convinced its the rotor is that when I tested the lead coming from it the results were all 0.7 when the workshop manual says the spec is 0.14-0.18 so there isn't enough power actually coming from the rotor to the rectifier in the first place

[b1k3rdude]

Is is thread for an FZ1? if so prolly should be move to that section so when the fix is found other FZ1 owner can be made aware.

[Dudeofrude]

Is is thread for an FZ1? if so prolly should be move to that section so when the fix is found other FZ1 owner can be made aware.

It is mate but I originally posted here to get the attention of more members who may have been able to help as not everyone visits every section.

The admin can feel free to move it to the FZ1 section if they want? I have no way of doing that (as far as I know) ?

[Gnasher]

Test the voltage coming from the generator at the plug with the bike running, just a small rev should give you 13v plus, if not it's the stator of the rotor.

[Dudeofrude]

Test the voltage coming from the generator at the plug with the bike running, just a small rev should give you 13v plus, if not it's the stator of the rotor.

Will give that a go shortly then ?

Stupid question but do I start the bike then unplug the stator from the rectifier? Or will it start without it connected?

[Gnasher]

[quote author=Gnasher link=topic=26287.msg317125#msg317125 date=1593447249]
Test the voltage coming from the generator at the plug with the bike running, just a small rev should give you 13v plus, if not it's the stator of the rotor.

Will give that a go shortly then

Stupid question but do I start the bike then unplug the stator from the rectifier? Or will it start without it connected?
[/quote]

Oh forgot to mention, from the generator you'll get AC not DC volts and at idle around 14v if it's good, as you rev it will increase with the revs, 2k =20v, 3k, 30v etc etc up to around 70v ish from memory if it's good. 

I think (from memory but I could be wrong) you should be able to get at the wires through the back of the plug that goes into the rectifier.  Take a good look at the link I sent you over the weekend ref R1, it's all in there just follow it and remember you've got to do some maths when you test the ohms on the generator.     

[Dudeofrude]

[quote author=Dudeofrude link=topic=26287.msg317127#msg317127 date=1593448235]
[quote author=Gnasher link=topic=26287.msg317125#msg317125 date=1593447249]
Test the voltage coming from the generator at the plug with the bike running, just a small rev should give you 13v plus, if not it's the stator of the rotor.

Will give that a go shortly then

Stupid question but do I start the bike then unplug the stator from the rectifier? Or will it start without it connected?
[/quote]

Oh forgot to mention, from the generator you'll get AC not DC volts and at idle around 14v if it's good, as you rev it will increase with the revs, 2k =20v, 3k, 30v etc etc up to around 70v ish from memory if it's good. 

I think (from memory but I could be wrong) you should be able to get at the wires through the back of the plug that goes into the rectifier. 
[/quote]

I've been testing it using the ohms setting (resistance) as thats what it said in the service book? And ive tried to get the prongs into the back of the plug but can't do it without damaging the wires

[Gnasher]

Just edited my last post, ref Ohms testing take a look.