26-04-20, 10:50 PM
(This post was last modified: 26-04-20, 10:51 PM by Grahamm.)
So, planning on doing some work on my bike, I'm looking through the list of instructions in Haynes.
Ok, do that?
No problems.
Unscrew this?
Simple.
Move that out the way?
Easy.
Remove the rear shock?
Piece of ca...
Hang on?
What?! :eek
You could have mentioned that at the start, instead of casually chucking it in at about stage 8 of the process...!!
Are you telling me you didn't know that you have to read the entire manual front to back BEFORE you start any actual mechanical work? ??
And why do they put in random pictures clearly copied from other manuals 
(27-04-20, 09:45 AM)mtread link Wrote: And why do they put in random pictures clearly copied from other manuals
You've just reminded me of another reason why I've had so much difficulty!
As I mentioned in the WDYDWYFT thread, I was having all sorts of problems removing a cover plate from the middle of the frame.
It wasn't until I looked *REALLY* closely at the picture in the manual (after the bit where it said I had to remove the rear shock) I realised that, in their picture, they had taken the exhaust off already!
It doesn't say anything about this anywhere I can see... :2guns
28-04-20, 04:03 AM
(This post was last modified: 28-04-20, 04:05 AM by Slaninar.)
(26-04-20, 10:50 PM)Grahamm link Wrote: So, planning on doing some work on my bike, I'm looking through the list of instructions in Haynes.
Ok, do that?
No problems.
Unscrew this?
Simple.
Move that out the way?
Easy.
Remove the rear shock?
Piece of ca...
Hang on?
What?! :eek
You could have mentioned that at the start, instead of casually chucking it in at about stage 8 of the process...!!
When I'm learning something, or using a manual, it's easiest (for me at least) to do it like this:
- read the table of contents (if it exists)
- go over the entire material, from start to finish
- then go "in more detail" - in case it's not all perfectly clear from the first go. If it is, this can be skipped.
- if using an instructions manual, this is the stage when I would start doing it. Checking if I have all the needed tools, bits...
When writing manuals, I often explicitly recommend how they should be used - similarly to what I listed here. After having read this post, I'm even more convinced that it is good to state the "manual for the manual" right at the start. 
Most things done in a hurry need to be done again - patiently.
Reminds me of the old joke about asking for directions - 'I wouldn't start from here, if I were you'
The most frustrating thing is when you find there's a missing page :'(
Somebody probably lit a fag with it :rolleyes
(28-04-20, 11:35 AM)mtread link Wrote: Somebody probably lit a fag with it :rolleyes
Or mopped up the spilt coffee/tea/beer etc.
The best (worst) I ever saw in a Haynes, was in a GS1000 manual - they actually had the valve timing set up 180 degrees out! Still got the manual in the workshop!
(28-04-20, 04:03 AM)Slaninar link Wrote: When writing manuals, I often explicitly recommend how they should be used - similarly to what I listed here. After having read this post, I'm even more convinced that it is good to state the "manual for the manual" right at the start.
I've written rules for Board Games and one of the most important parts is what's called "Blind Play Testing", where you hand the game and rulebook to a bunch of people who've never seen it before and sit back and listen.
You make notes of them saying "Hang on, what does that mean?" or "How do you do this?" or "Can I do that...?" and check that they can find the answers in the rulebook.
If they can't, you need to rewrite the rules and/or add examples to make it clear.
IMO this should be the case for *all* manuals :thumbup
Can you imagine doing that with us lot - chaos! :rollin
I have a rule when using a Haynes manual start with the smallest hammer and work up by the time you get to a 14lb sledge hammer it does fit there :-)
And avoid any 4spanner jobs like the plague. :'(
never look down on anyone unless you're helping them up.
I like the 3 spanner jobs on cars that first say, ‘remove gearbox following chapter 2’. Simple 5 minute job!
(28-04-20, 08:32 PM)Grahamm link Wrote: [quote author=Slaninar link=topic=26111.msg313545#msg313545 date=1588043038]
When writing manuals, I often explicitly recommend how they should be used - similarly to what I listed here. After having read this post, I'm even more convinced that it is good to state the "manual for the manual" right at the start.
I've written rules for Board Games and one of the most important parts is what's called "Blind Play Testing", where you hand the game and rulebook to a bunch of people who've never seen it before and sit back and listen.
You make notes of them saying "Hang on, what does that mean?" or "How do you do this?" or "Can I do that...?" and check that they can find the answers in the rulebook.
If they can't, you need to rewrite the rules and/or add examples to make it clear.
IMO this should be the case for *all* manuals :thumbup
[/quote]
It makes sense.
Though, I've had experience that some people ask about very simple instrucitons (like one A4 sheet of paper text, with clear, step by step instructios).
So the question is - did you aim for 100% question free, or just aimed for some threshold (like 95% or similar)?
Most things done in a hurry need to be done again - patiently.
(30-04-20, 08:29 AM)Slaninar link Wrote: Though, I've had experience that some people ask about very simple instrucitons (like one A4 sheet of paper text, with clear, step by step instructios).
So the question is - did you aim for 100% question free, or just aimed for some threshold (like 95% or similar)?
The answer to any reasonable question should be there to be found, that's why you do the testing.
I remember at a games Convention, once, a group of us picked out a game from a "library" that was available.
We started to go through the rules and hit a fundamental contradiction whilst doing the set up and there was nothing to explain how to resolve it, so we said "Sod it" and picked out another one!
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