Quote:You're making it all sound so fluffy and straightforward.
Has it ever occurred to you that the victim might not want to sit down with someone who's just made their life a misery? In fact the very thought may actually horrify them.
And as for "not re-offending", that could simply just mean they weren't stupid enough to get caught again.
Nothing fluffy and straightforward about it.
The scheme depends on both perpetrator and victim agreeing to it.
I mean how else did you think it could work?
Quote:Has it ever occurred to you that the victim might not want to sit down with someone who's just made their life a misery? In fact the very thought may actually horrify them.
That’s the idea. Most people start young and with petty crime. The idea is to catch them before they turn into fucked up and hardened criminals.
Doesn’t matter anyway. These schemes are few and far between. Nobody wants to fund em. Hollow rhetoric and macho posturing wins more votes than actually putting in place the funding and schemes that effectively cut crime and stop youngsters becoming career criminals.
Hey ho.
(27-04-19, 12:06 PM)YamFazFan link Wrote: So what's your solution to the hardened career criminals to whom it's a way of life and where nothing works to stop the offending?.
"Ladies and Gentlemen. In my pocket I have a sealed envelope with 'Predictable Questions' written on it..."
Restorative Justice is, of course, not suitable for all cases. However for RJ to work in the first place, cases have to be passed over to it and there has to be sufficient funding for it to operate.
just to clear things up a bit ,I was 16, in fact I had my seventeenth birthday inside and I think because of my youth and a bit of a rough upbringing it made it easier for me to "reform" as it were.I think it would be a lot more difficult for a long term offender or a person who'd been robbing for years to turn himself around.I've always thought that was a turning point in my life,and a few years later meeting and marrying my wonderful wife,I think most of us if we look back in our files will remember certain things that helped us get through rough times.
never look down on anyone unless you're helping them up.
(28-04-19, 12:08 AM)coffee link Wrote: just to clear things up a bit ,I was 16, in fact I had my seventeenth birthday inside and I think because of my youth and a bit of a rough upbringing it made it easier for me to "reform" as it were.I think it would be a lot more difficult for a long term offender or a person who'd been robbing for years to turn himself around.I've always thought that was a turning point in my life,and a few years later meeting and marrying my wonderful wife,I think most of us if we look back in our files will remember certain things that helped us get through rough times.
Well said fella. Top bloke - we all make mistakes.
Those are my principles...if you don't like them I have others.
(27-04-19, 10:55 PM)Grahamm link Wrote: [quote author=YamFazFan link=topic=25200.msg297032#msg297032 date=1556363218]
So what's your solution to the hardened career criminals to whom it's a way of life and where nothing works to stop the offending?.
"Ladies and Gentlemen. In my pocket I have a sealed envelope with 'Predictable Questions' written on it..."
Restorative Justice is, of course, not suitable for all cases. However for RJ to work in the first place, cases have to be passed over to it and there has to be sufficient funding for it to operate.
[/quote]
"Ladies and Gentlemen. In my pocket I have a sealed envelope with 'Predictable Answers' (or rather the lack of) written on it...."
(28-04-19, 07:19 PM)YamFazFan link Wrote: "Ladies and Gentlemen. In my pocket I have a sealed envelope with 'Predictable Answers' (or rather the lack of) written on it...."
ITYM "Answers that address the topic instead of the straw man argument I tried to use..."
(29-04-19, 12:23 AM)Grahamm link Wrote: [quote author=YamFazFan link=topic=25200.msg297145#msg297145 date=1556475557]
"Ladies and Gentlemen. In my pocket I have a sealed envelope with 'Predictable Answers' (or rather the lack of) written on it...."
ITYM "Answers that address the topic instead of the straw man argument I tried to use..."
[/quote]
Yep a politician would be proud of that one Grahamm :lol
I had written a rant on this subject, however it's pointless sucking eggs. 
People DON'T change! There's good reason behind the term "repeat offender". It's in their makeup, their brain is wired that (wrong) way... none of which can be changed! Given an opportunity where they believe they wont get caught... they'd go do it again. All vices the same, burglars, sex offenders, murderers, etc...
Plus the only reason they say they are stopping IS because they got caught... have been exposed... publicly branded.
Once the dust settles they go back to their "old habits" however try to cover their tracks even better, the next time round!...
Ironic, we are on a motorcycle forum discussing our pride and joy with a motorbike thief!... infact it gets better, he'd happily remove the contents of your house at the same time! :lol Great! ...sorry if I also caused offence to any sex offenders reading this too! :evil :foc
(29-04-19, 01:19 PM)F4celess link Wrote: I had written a rant on this subject, however it's pointless sucking eggs.
People DON'T change! There's good reason behind the term "repeat offender". It's in their makeup, their brain is wired that (wrong) way... none of which can be changed! Given an opportunity where they believe they wont get caught... they'd go do it again. All vices the same, burglars, sex offenders, murderers, etc...
Plus the only reason they say they are stopping IS because they got caught... have been exposed... publicly branded.
Once the dust settles they go back to their "old habits" however try to cover their tracks even better, the next time round!...
Ironic, we are on a motorcycle forum discussing our pride and joy with a motorbike thief!... infact it gets better, he'd happily remove the contents of your house at the same time! :lol Great! ...sorry if I also caused offence to any sex offenders reading this too! :evil :foc
Don’t hold back F4celess, just say what you mean fella.
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.
(29-04-19, 01:34 PM)darrsi link Wrote: Don’t hold back F4celess, just say what you mean fella.
OK - will sum it up... People don't change. Better?
Beg to differ F4celess I changed after riding Suzukis for best part odd 30 years to Yamahas for the last 16 years. One day I may totally loose the plot and buy a Harley
(29-04-19, 01:36 PM)F4celess link Wrote: OK - will sum it up... People don't change. Better?
Fine, so let's just lock them up for life... no, wait, that's too expensive, let's just hang them insted.
Oh, just a moment, that was tried with the Bloody Code (see my link above) and that didn't work...
(29-04-19, 01:36 PM)F4celess link Wrote: [quote author=darrsi link=topic=25200.msg297175#msg297175 date=1556541244]
Don’t hold back F4celess, just say what you mean fella.
OK - will sum it up... People don't change. Better?
[/quote]
:lol
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.
(29-04-19, 05:44 PM)Grahamm link Wrote: [quote author=F4celess link=topic=25200.msg297177#msg297177 date=1556541378]
OK - will sum it up... People don't change. Better?
Fine, so let's just lock them up for life... no, wait, that's too expensive, let's just hang them insted.
Oh, just a moment, that was tried with the Bloody Code (see my link above) and that didn't work...
[/quote]
Obviously being hypothetical, how can hanging not work, name me one person who was hanged who committed a crime again? :lol
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.
(29-04-19, 06:45 PM)darrsi link Wrote: [quote author=Grahamm link=topic=25200.msg297202#msg297202 date=1556556272]
[quote author=F4celess link=topic=25200.msg297177#msg297177 date=1556541378]
OK - will sum it up... People don't change. Better?
Fine, so let's just lock them up for life... no, wait, that's too expensive, let's just hang them insted.
Oh, just a moment, that was tried with the Bloody Code (see my link above) and that didn't work...
[/quote]
Obviously being hypothetical, how can hanging not work, name me one person who was hanged who committed a crime again? :lol
[/quote]
Cant argue with that Darrsi haha
Ah well, was briefly an interesting discussion, but hey ho, here come the usual trolls and wind up merchants.
(29-04-19, 08:10 PM)VNA link Wrote: Ah well, was briefly an interesting discussion, but hey ho, here come the usual trolls and wind up merchants.
You seriously have the audacity to accuse others of being wind up merchants??? :rollin :rollin :rollin
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.
(29-04-19, 01:19 PM)F4celess link Wrote: I had written a rant on this subject, however it's pointless sucking eggs.
People DON'T change! There's good reason behind the term "repeat offender". It's in their makeup, their brain is wired that (wrong) way... none of which can be changed! Given an opportunity where they believe they wont get caught... they'd go do it again. All vices the same, burglars, sex offenders, murderers, etc...
Plus the only reason they say they are stopping IS because they got caught... have been exposed... publicly branded.
Once the dust settles they go back to their "old habits" however try to cover their tracks even better, the next time round!...
Ironic, we are on a motorcycle forum discussing our pride and joy with a motorbike thief!... infact it gets better, he'd happily remove the contents of your house at the same time! :lol Great! ...sorry if I also caused offence to any sex offenders reading this too! :evil :foc
Everyones entitled to their own opinion,all I can say is I changed, if not stealing from people and causing their lives a misery is changing,are you sure youre as "clean"as youre making out ? or maybe a bit hypocritical ? sorry,Ive got to dash,I just noticed a bloke has left his car open,easy pickings! :lol
never look down on anyone unless you're helping them up.
Just goes to show you can't judge everyone by the same criteria.
I agree that some, if not most, bad-uns will never change now matter how many chances they get and do need locking away
But, like I said previously, we all make mistakes, even the best of us, whether driven by circumstance, environment, upbringing, peer pressure, or similar and should be entitled to a second chance.
Good on you Coffee.
Take a deep breath, coz it all starts now, when you pull the foccin' pin
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