BREXIT

[YamFazFan]

So you've changed your mind. Excellent!

It's become clear that No Deal is a now a non-runner. Didn't you watch/read about the amendment vote in the Commons the on Tuesday?.


If you read back through my posts you'll see I'd declared No Deal dead a while before that.


The second best option is Deal, which I'm now hoping for.


Do try to keep up :lol

[mtread]

It's become clear that No Deal is a now a non-runner. Didn't you watch/read about the amendment vote in the Commons the on Tuesday?.
If you read back through my posts you'll see I'd declared No Deal dead a while before that.
The second best option is Deal, which I'm now hoping for.
Do try to keep up

Of course I'm keeping up, very much so  . I told you No Deal wasn't going to happen well before you changed your mind. :b  What you need to do is let other people change their minds too. The best options are clearly
1. Remain
2. 2nd Referendum
3. Customs Union and Single Market for whole UK
4. DUP can foc off and not hold the rest of the country to ransom

[YamFazFan]

It's not a case of changing my mind.


'No Deal'is a dead duck but I still want to leave, so 'Deal' is a compromise.


I realise compromise is an alien word to the arch Remainers.

[mtread]

Just to remind you of some of your previous posts 



29th Dec '' It suits me fine if she loses the vote, we'll just come out with no deal at the end of March ''
17th Dec '' When I voted Leave I assumed it meant a No Deal type exit.''

No Deal - > Deal = changing your mind.
I'll compromise. No 3 full Customs Union + Single Market. Deal? 

[YamFazFan]

No one is going to come out of this with everything that they expected at the beginning, or even what they expected up until quite recently.


I've come to accept that leaving with No Deal is almost impossible. I have to say almost because it's theoretically still on the table and is the default situation. But to advocate No Deal alone to the exclusion of all else is flogging a dead horse.


If that means I've 'changed my mind' on how we leave, then yes I've changed my mind.


I haven't changed my mind on the original question that was on the ballot paper. Leaving with a deal is still Leave.

[mtread]

Fair enough. I hope other Leavers think the same as you. Some see any kind of deal with the EU as a betrayal.


I'm starting to give up on Remain, however much I would like it to happen. With the two big parties talking  :eek  and neither of them supporting a 2nd Referendum, it's not going to happen, whatever opinion polls suggest the people now think. At the end of the day politicians are always in charge.


So my preference is for damage limitation now. A good close deal with the EU so that business can get on with things and EU residents can come and go as we /they please. Sort of Norway plus. Perhaps we could join the EU at a later date 


Apart from that Remain 'till I die  :thumbup

[YamFazFan]

[size=1em]3. Customs Union and Single Market for whole UK[/size]

Not Single Market. That entails so much compromise as to make Brexit virtually meaningless.
As for the Customs Union, peace has got to be maintained as the number one priority.

[mtread]

Trouble is, Single Market includes Financial Services, Insurance etc and without that access across Europe we are stuffed






RIP Jeremy Hardy. You made us all smile. You made us all think.

[VNA]

At the time No Deal appeared achievable.

What do you mean achievable?  You only achieve NO DEAL by failing to get a DEAL.  OK, maybe such a level of incompetence takes some doing, perhaps it would be an achievement.
 

29th Dec '' It suits me fine if she loses the vote, we'll just come out with no deal at the end of March ''
17th Dec '' When I voted Leave I assumed it meant a No Deal type exit.''

That’s because they voted for BREXIT thinking the country would be 350 million a week better off, and it would all happen the day after the vote. 

I haven't changed my mind on the original question that was on the ballot paper. Leaving with a deal is still Leave.

May I remind you what May’s deal is – it is a withdrawal agreement.  It is not a settled position.  After the 31[sup]st[/sup] of march under May’s deal we are no longer members of the EU.  However we will continue to have single market access to allow us to trade seamlessly with the EU whilst we negotiate our future position – ie a trade deal with the EU.  That means we will follow the rules of the market, but we will no longer be involved in setting the rules.  Effectively on the first of April 2019 under May’s deal we cease to be a truly sovereign state as we are right now today. 



Now if it took us two years to get into this mess just trying to draw up a withdrawal agreement – ie the easy bit, how long do you think it will take us to renegotiate agriculture, fisheries and food, business and competition, customs and tax etc etc.  It will never happen, not within two years.  And you will not be able to do a trade deal with any other country until that lot and 100 other wee matters are sorted out.


So you end up in the backstop, held in a customs union, run by the EU.  Taking EU rules.  The backstop is there as we all know to protect the peace in Ireland and the UK.  You cannot leave the customs union until the EU is satisfied that you have satisfactorily negotiated your way out of all the EU treaties we spent the last 45 years negotiating our way into.


Meanwhile the UK will haemorrhage business nervous of loosing EU access and trade, the pound will continue to slide, inflation will rise, nobody will invest in the UK as they will have no idea of what our long-term trading strategy is.  Therefore, mass unemployment will follow.

[agricola]

[quote author=VNA link=topic=24678.msg291679#msg291679 date=1548969269]

And then there is the nightmare of the Irish border.

How does the EU manage its border with Brazil ?
[/quote]


or Switzerland?

[VNA]

The only positive thing I can say about May’s deal is;


Well after two years of trying to negotiate our way out of all the treaties and rules we have painstakingly negotiated our way into over 45 odd years.  And after another two years of our parliament unable to do any other business bar BREXIT, and indeed when we find ourselves stuck in the backstop with no way out...............


Well maybe, 2 to 3 years down the road, we will understand we were better off as full members of the EU.  Which is what we’ll end up doing to get out of the backstop.


I certainly hope so.

[celticdog]

[glow=red,2,300]MESSAGE FOR THE EU- [color=rgb(51, 51, 51)]Other countries cope and prosper outside the EU, why can't we?[/color][/glow]

[VNA]

MESSAGE FOR THE EU- [color=rgb(51, 51, 51)]Other countries cope and prosper outside the EU, why can't we?[/color]

Message for BREXITEERS – why do you want to ignore the biggest single open seamless trading market in the world.  A market that we have built, promoted and prospered from for some 45 years.  A market that accounts for 25% of global GDP and is right on our doorstep.


Why do you want to erect barriers to doing business with your immediate neighbours?

[fazersharp]

MESSAGE FOR THE EU- [color=rgb(51, 51, 51)]Other countries cope and prosper outside the EU, why can't we?[/color]

Message for BREXITEERS – why do you want to ignore the biggest single open seamless trading market in the world.  A market that we have built, promoted and prospered from for some 45 years.  A market that accounts for 25% of global GDP and is right on our doorstep.

That is the ONLY bit I want to keep.

[vinnyb]

Why do you want to erect barriers to doing business with your immediate neighbours?

Isn't that exactly what the SNP have been wanting to do for years?

[VNA]

Isn't that exactly what the SNP have been wanting to do for years?

Nope.

[ogri48]

MESSAGE FOR THE EU- [color=rgb(51, 51, 51)]Other countries cope and prosper outside the EU, why can't we?[/color]

Message for BREXITEERS – why do you want to ignore the biggest single open seamless trading market in the world.  A market that we have built, promoted and prospered from for some 45 years.  A market that accounts for 25% of global GDP and is right on our doorstep.


Why do you want to erect barriers to doing business with your immediate neighbours?

because I don't like living under their jackboot any more than you like living under the English one

[mtread]

or Switzerland?

Switzerland isn't in the EU....... but it's in the Customs Union, the Single Market, EFTA and Schengen. All of which May has refused for the UK.

[mtread]

That is the ONLY bit I want to keep.

But the UK can't just pick and choose the bits that suit them. Which is exactly what the EU have been telling May all along.
What you can't also do, is agree a deal then come back at the 59th minute wanting to change it!

[fazersharp]

This cartoon you posted is proof that you really don't get it, you posted it as an anti brexit cartoon but totally failed to understand how leavers would see it.
Let me try and help you. Take your loathing of the English and the hatread and contempt you so readily spew out against "Westminster" - actually doesn't matter to you which government sits there. Unfortunately for you Vladimir already has a job.

Well a lot of your reasons and thinking are the same as a lot of leavers but instead they are directed at the way the EU is run. Strange how a scots independence voter does not want to be ruled from "westminster"  all of 400 miles away but perfectly happy to take rules from Brussels 700 miles away.