General Election 8th June

[fazersharp]

I think the reason is that She ( May ) doesn’t want to give any legitimisation by being in a tv debate with him.

She has a massive lead.  Why risk it in a debate?  She won’t score points in such debate.  Instead she’ll focus on stuff like ‘The One Show’ and talk about who puts the bins out in the May household.  Go figure.

Yes go figure -- I figure May is a smart cookie and Corbin less of a smart cookie and more of a ginger nut shortbread.

 

How can anyone contemplate voting for Mr. Corbyn

Well first they would have to reside in the right constituency.  This is not a presidential election.

You are doing it again, stating the bleedin obvious, of course people know that, but every vote for a Labour MP is a step closer to Corbin becoming the prime minster.

[VNA]

Yes go figure -- I figure May is a smart cookie and Corbin less of a smart cookie and more of a ginger nut shortbread.

  Your political insight is most impressive Fazersharp.  Meanwhile what have we learned from Mrs May this week - well it’s Philip that takes the bins out!  Corbyn wants to debate policy, whilst May talks rubbish.

You are doing it again, stating the bleedin obvious, of course people know that

 
Indeed, it is bleedin obvious, or at least it should be.  But I’d bet if you asked the average punter the day before the election the name of the candidate they intended to vote for – well a lot of them would be stumped.  And I’d bet a good number would say…………………DOH!

[pilninggas]

his IRA links outweigh any brilliance

Mr Corbyn was not and is not a member of the IRA.

my issue with him, on the IRA matter, is that he rubbed shoulders with McGuinness and killer Adams, at the height of the troubles, long before they ceased fire, started a dialogue or decommission.

His fawning over dead republicans, in the midst of mainland bombings was and still is repugnant.

I can't see any valid defence of this. He'll be gone when Labour lose 40+ seats anyway, his far-left codswallop on the scrapheap.

[VNA]

 

my issue with him, on the IRA matter, is that he rubbed shoulders with McGuinness and killer Adams, at the height of the troubles, long before they ceased fire, started a dialogue or decommission.

You don’t make peace with your friends.


I don’t see what the issue is.  It wasn’t long before it was government policy to speak to terrorists, and indeed that’s exactly what Mo Mowlam did.  Eventually through dialogue a cease fire and a peace agreement followed.


Mr Corbyn has always unequivocally condemned IRA violence, but he has (rightly I say) insisted on acknowledging the role of atrocities like Bloody Sunday and the treatment of IRA prisoners in precipitating radicalisation.

I can't see any valid defence of this.

The Thatcher government’s policy was an absolute utter failure.  And it cost a heck of a lot of lives.  Only when others adopted Mr Corbyn’s approach was progress made.


Mr Corbyn’s approach to the IRA is all the more reason to vote for him.

[ogri48]

Blairs solution to getting his name down for getting the peace solution resolved was, amongst other things, giving 95 ira suspects responsible for at least 300 murders anonymity, and freedom from prosecution. It was a surrender, nothing less. To ordinary people like myself, this contrast with the way the Labour Party betrayed us and protected terrorists compared  to the way the liberal left still want to demonise and prosecute soldiers who served in conflicts from the troubles in NI to the Iraq war is repellant.

[pilninggas]

 

my issue with him, on the IRA matter, is that he rubbed shoulders with McGuinness and killer Adams, at the height of the troubles, long before they ceased fire, started a dialogue or decommission.

You don’t make peace with your friends.


I don’t see what the issue is.  It wasn’t long before it was government policy to speak to terrorists, and indeed that’s exactly what Mo Mowlam did.  Eventually through dialogue a cease fire and a peace agreement followed.


Mr Corbyn has always unequivocally condemned IRA violence, but he has (rightly I say) insisted on acknowledging the role of atrocities like Bloody Sunday and the treatment of IRA prisoners in precipitating radicalisation.

I can't see any valid defence of this.

The Thatcher government’s policy was an absolute utter failure.  And it cost a heck of a lot of lives.  Only when others adopted Mr Corbyn’s approach was progress made.


Mr Corbyn’s approach to the IRA is all the more reason to vote for him.

The government of John Major told the IRA via the back channels that no formal, open dialogue was possible until a ceasefire, hence the ceasefire of the early 90s. Unlike Corbyn there was no open discussion, until that happened. No one has ever adopted Corbyn's approach, there have always been conditions made. I wonder what Corbyn would have done differently with the Northern Ireland of the 80s?

I have no problem with those who met with IRA-Sinn Fein after the first ceasefire of the early 90s because a breakthrough was tangible and close, but someone who smiled with senior IRA commanders for photos when the mainland was being bombed makes me sick. I wonder if any Irish TD ever had his photo taken with a minor Unionist politician linked to UVF around the time Dublin was bombed in 1973? [don't think it's too likely do you?]

[VNA]

 

The government of John Major told the IRA via the back channels that no formal, open dialogue was possible until a ceasefire.

Informal talks in other words.  They had accepted that their policy over the last decade had failed. 

I have no problem with those who met with IRA-Sinn Fein after the first ceasefire of the early 90s

Really?  So what about the meetings that took place before then behind closed doors. 
I think you are splitting hairs here. 
What is clear is that Corbyn is a man who condemns violence and promotes diplomatic and political solutions to military action.  Which is indeed the policy that was eventually taken with respect to Northern Ireland.

Blairs solution to getting his name down for getting the peace solution resolved was, amongst other things, giving 95 ira suspects responsible for at least 300 murders anonymity, and freedom from prosecution. It was a surrender, nothing less. To ordinary people like myself, this contrast with the way the Labour Party betrayed us and protected terrorists compared  to the way the liberal left still want to demonise and prosecute soldiers who served in conflicts from the troubles in NI to the Iraq war is repellant.

I hear what you are saying Ogri48.  But what is most disturbing of all is that nobody has been brought to task for our illegal war in Iraq.  And let us not forget David Cameron involved us in a bloody and failed conflict in Libya. 



But in the meantime, there is a general election.  Feel free to vote for a hard Brexit and more austerity, feel free to vote for the privatisation and destruction of the NHS, feel free to vote for a hire and fire culture and an end to workers’ rights and protection.  Feel free to vote for a “bloody difficult woman” who would not think twice about killing millions in a pre-emptive strike.


Feel free to buy into the lies of the right-wing press and elect May’s vile right wing government.

[slappy]

 

Feel free to buy into the lies of the right-wing press

Because the left wing press never tell lies.


Corbyn and the Labour party are not fit to govern, Corbyn still thinks it is the 70s and the Labour party are too busy arguing with each other.


May and the Conservatives will win because there is no viable alternative that people will vote for.

[pilninggas]

 

The government of John Major told the IRA via the back channels that no formal, open dialogue was possible until a ceasefire.

Informal talks in other words.  They had accepted that their policy over the last decade had failed. 

I'd hardly call an absolute expectationg of a ceasefire prior to talks 'splitting hairs'. While PIRA were active the UK government of the time would not even consider talks - remember at the time, SF/IRA wanted the initial discussions that spanned 18months or so kept secret. The government stuck with it. Even when things went wrong for a time.

I suspect the likes of Corbyn would have happily 'given' NI to the Republic without one second of thought to the unionist and protestant community and their human rights or wishes.

[VNA]

I'd hardly call an absolute expectationg of a ceasefire prior to talks 'splitting hairs'

  I think you miss my point.  The British Government was in talks with the IRA long before there was a ceasefire.  And I was of the understanding that the Irish and British Governments issued a Joint Declaration on Peace before the Cease Fire.

 

I suspect the likes of Corbyn would have happily 'given' NI to the Republic without one second of thought to the unionist and protestant community and their human rights or wishes.

The Downing Street Declaration, by the way, stated that it was the right of the people of Northern Ireland to exercise the right of self-determination! 



So in fact there was not only talks but a concession before there was a cease fire and ‘official’ talks.

[maddog04]

irrespective of your love/loathing for JC, this sums it all up perfectly for me and its the reason why I'll be voting Labour.

But in the meantime, there is a general election.  Feel free to vote for a hard Brexit and more austerity, feel free to vote for the privatisation and destruction of the NHS, feel free to vote for a hire and fire culture and an end to workers’ rights and protection.

[Carlsv8]

How can anyone contemplate voting for Mr. Corbyn, his IRA links outweigh any brilliance (though I think he is an ideological idiot) he may have. I may be biased after 26 years in the Armed Forces but some things cannot be forgiven. I'd lock him up.
Labour have no chance, they are not trusted or trustworthy and screwed up so many things last time. I'm not a 'Dyed in the wool' Tory voter, never went to University (got some O levels), come from a line of Joiners and Miners and am from County Durham, a labour stronghold, but wouldn't vote labour ever, I wouldn't let them run my bath, let alone a country. Imagine having Diane Abbot in charge of stuff, she's one of their top politicians, scary.

Not going to get into a keyboard warrior discussion about my views so have quoted myself along with a screenshot (of which there are a number) of a little light reading from the press. Please don't misquote me.

[nick crisp]

I have a question for VNA. Why does Nicola Sturgeon want to be in on Brexit negotiations when as far as the SNP is concerned, Scotland is going to be independent in the not-too-distant future, and will remain a part of the EU? I'm puzzled as to why she wants to be in on deciding the rest of the UK's fate. It doesn't seem right to me.

[fazersharp]

I have a question for VNA. Why does Nicola Sturgeon want to be in on Brexit negotiations when as far as the SNP is concerned, Scotland is going to be independent in the not-too-distant future, and will remain a part of the EU? I'm puzzled as to why she wants to be in on deciding the rest of the UK's fate. It doesn't seem right to me.

Also she bangs on about being ruled by Westminster 200 miles away and yet is happy to be ruled by Brussels 500 miles away.

[Grahamm]

Not going to get into a keyboard warrior discussion about my views so have quoted myself along with a screenshot (of which there are a number) of a little light reading from the press. Please don't misquote me.

Which newspaper was that, though? Was it being fair and impartial or, like so many others owned by Tory Supporters (ie the S*N, the DFM, the Excess et al) were they selectively reporting facts which pushed their agenda?

Here's another look at Corbyn's "Terrorist sympathies" which paints a slightly different (ie bigger) picture which includes details which others have, curiously, omitted...

[johnakay]

I'll never vote corbyn as long as he got an hole up his ass.
he has to go before labour get my vote.

[lew600fazer]

I see Corbyn has said a Labour government will now build new Nuclear powered Submarines to replace Trident.
I received my postal ballet today here in France. Having now found out who the Candidates are for Wirral West I will be voting for the sitting MP Margaret Greenwood, Labour, The Tory candidate is a business man , guess what he has just had to call in the receivers, The LibDem has been around the local scene now for years and is so boring he sends you to sleep, them we have the Green Party.

[nick crisp]

I see Corbyn has said a Labour government will now build new Nuclear powered Submarines to replace Trident.

The impression I got was that he was saying we would keep Trident. The subs I believe are due for replacement, but the missile system will still be carried by the new ones. The shadow foreign (?) secretary saying that Labour wouldn't keep a nuclear deterrent, then Corbyn having to come out later the same day to say, no, it was now in the new manifesto, Labour would keep Trident (despite Corbyn having been vehemently anti-nuclear throughout his political life), and the shadow secretary of defence complaining that it's his business to state Labour's defence policy anyway, doesn't fill one with confidence in the party, especially after other recent gaffs by, and divisions between, Labour members.


So what do you do if you don't trust Labour on defence or the economy, but you don't trust the Tories for a fair society? And you think UKIP are now irrelevant? And you think the Greens are a joke? And you're concerned about how Brexit goes, but you never quite trusted the direction the EU is going in? Sometimes, I'm just so confused  :\

[Fazerider]

…
So what do you do if you don't trust Labour on defence or the economy, but you don't trust the Tories for a fair society? And you think UKIP are now irrelevant? And you think the Greens are a joke? And you're concerned about how Brexit goes, but you never quite trusted the direction the EU is going in? Sometimes, I'm just so confused

Quite.
If only there was another party we could choose. Ideally, one that would offer a referendum on the outcome of the Brexit deal.  :'(

[lew600fazer]

Anyone notice a little streamer on Sky News this morning , Tory spending cuts will see 900,000 children from low income families lose the right to free school meals
I am voting for my sitting MP Margaret Greenwood, because she is an active MP and has the interests of her constituents at heart .She actively oppose cuts to the NHS and alerted the public about the intended sell off of 49% NHS hospitals. She is also a Brexiteer(I am not) but unlike The PM she did not jump ship to further her own career.


I am sure the Tories will walk the election as basically it is all about Brexit and to send the EU a message, but I will make a prediction there will be massive civil unrest on the streets of the UK in a couple of years when all the cut backs the Tories will be hammering down our throats.


I am getting worried about myself though I am finding more and more that I am agreeing with VNA.