car park scam

[BBROWN1664]

Its only not enforced if the issuer of the invoice choses not to go to the small claims court. Most , but not all, of the time the issuer cannot be bothered as it costs them more than they will get back.

[mtread]

Legally they can pass on an invoice which is what the ticket is. Its not a parking ticket in the same way as the councils and police issue.

Indeed. It can only be a 'fine' if the offense is covered by a law or bylaw, which private land is not. It is an invoice for a contract, which you are assumed to have accepted by virtue of seeing signs etc. They would need to take you to court and prove that you had accepted the 'contract' (were the signs clear?) and also that the charges are 'reasonable'.

[maddog04]

after speaking to my lad, it is now clear that its about a pay and display ticket.......he got one but it must have blown off the dash as he closed the door (I thought this was a load of bollox until it happened to me the other week and I actually saw it and corrected it)

they've said he owes £100 for failing to display on private land, here's the email reply to my lad with a few links removed, very scaremongering but bottom line is its private property so do we pay or ignore it?.



below is the reply from the Co. Parking Ticketing Limited, to my son, I don't know what his original email contained and they haven't included it in their reply





Thank you for your letter of appeal against the Parking Charge Notice issued under the terms of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. 









There are Warning Signs situated on the site that state; Warning, Private Property, vehicles parked in this area must clearly display a valid PTL pay and display ticket in the windscreen. Failure to comply will result in the vehicle being issued with a Parking Charge Notice without any notice given.  Having carefully considered the evidence provided by you and the Warden we have decided to reject your appeal for the reason below.









As the vehicle was parked without a valid pay and display ticket in the windscreen, (having checked photographs of when the vehicle was issued with the PCN), you can view the photographic evidence yourself online at www.payptl.co.uk ) as clearly stated on the warning signs, the vehicle was issued with a Parking Charge Notice.









We can only advise that when leaving your vehicle that you check to ensure that the ticket is correctly displayed for inspection as the warden must be able to easily see all details, these may include dates, location numbers and security features to ensure it is valid and not a copy.









We appreciate that you purchased the pay and display ticket but the ticket was not visible and therefore the warden could not check and confirm that the vehicle was permitted to park there.









We are sorry but we won’t be accepting your appeal on this occasion as the warden acted accordingly to the signage at the location.









We are not able to take into account mitigating circumstances.  That an appellant feels he or she had good reason for breaching the terms of parking is not a reason for which we can allow an appeal.  When parking on private land, a motorist freely enters into an agreement to abide by the conditions of parking in return for permission to park.  It is the motorist’s responsibility to ensure that he or she abides by any clearly displayed conditions of parking that are clearly displayed on the signs.









The PCN is for Damages & Terrorem (click here for Supreme Court Ruling https:  //  www.    supremecourt.  uk/cases/docs/uksc-2013-0280-judgment. pdf ) Therefore falls outside “The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations  1999” and falls also outside Genuine Pre-Estimate of Loss.









The responsibility to observe and obey parking restrictions is yours and as we operated correctly in this 




instance due to the vehicle being incorrectly parked we will not be accepting your appeal, on this occasion.









You have now reached the end of our internal  appeals procedure. 









Due to above you appeal is refused, you now have the following options:









1                    Pay the PCN at the prevailing price of £60 within 14 days of above date. Please note that after this time the discounted rate will no longer apply and the Parking Charge Notice will rise to £100.









2                    Make an appeal to POPLA-Independent Appeals Service within 28 days by visiting www      .popla                .co.uk and completing the appeal form online quoting POPLA appeal reference XXXXXXXXXXXXXX .  If you prefer to complete your appeal in writing please contact Parking Ticketing Ltd on 0845 689  45 45 to request the POPLA appeal forms.









3                    Please be advised that if you opt for independent arbitration of your case, the ability to pay the parking charge at the reduced rate of £60 will be at an end, the full charge of £100.00 will be payable should your appeal be unsuccessful. If you opt to pay the parking charge you will be unable to appeal to POPLA.  Please visit www.ptlappeals.co.uk/refused appeals. to view other motorists’ appeals to POPLA against ourselves that were refused for various appeal reasons, meaning the discounted rate of £60 no longer applied and the PCN was at the original full cost of £100. 









4                    If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures which will lead to costs being added to the original charge of £100 and we may proceed with Court action against you. Please visit www.ptlappeals.co.uk/county-court to view County Court Judgments where we have been successful in obtaining judgment for non-payment of the PCN costing the defendant at least 3 times the original amount of the original £60 PCN. We do not enter into multiple appeals.







































Yours sincerely














Appeals Dept.     









Pay On-line:  www.payptl.co.uk    Phone Pay: 0844 848 0814


































By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services (www.ombudsman-services.org/) provides an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal.  However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution service.  As such should you wish to appeal then you must do so to POPLA as explained above

[Hamos]

If he actually bought the ticket and still has it then just ignore it.  Even if it goes to small claims you can still show the ticket.

[mtread]

The seeming important "Parking Charge Notice" they mention is just the invoice. This is well worth a read http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim...ng-tickets
Interesting that they accept they he paid for the ticket, but just didn't display it properly. Their 'appeal' process has no legal standing in itself. You might want to check whether they are members of the British Parking Association (BPA) or Independent Parking Committee (IPC). If so that gives you a secondary appeals route.

[maddog04]

yes, it looks like they accepted him at face value but I'm unsure if he still has the ticket. they are a member of BPA or at least appear on the BPA website and they've given a ref no. to appeal further. I may just do this and plead guilty to non display but cite excessive costs as reason of appeal

with all the shit going on with the Mrs I just wanted a quick answer of pay it or ignore it

[mtread]

As someone has pointed out on another forum, their appeals form http://www.ptlappeals.co.uk/parking-ticket-appeal is faulty. For the 'Are you the keeper/driver of the vehicle' question it is missing the option 'I am the keeper but was not driving the vehicle' (which would happen if it was used by an employee). Might be grounds for an appeal pointing out an insufficient appeals process ?
Post http://www.google.co.uk/url?url=http://f...oyGKpo0LsA also suggests they hand over to a debt collection company which doesn't appear to have much teeth.
Depends here whether you want a quick exit (pay) or are in for the long haul (don't pay and ignore until they give up)

[Skippernick]

F**k them, they agree you have a ticket, so just ignore them.

[Slaninar]

What if someone steals the ticket?

Can it be displayed inside the dashboard?

Does he have a proof of having paid a ticket (some receipt), along with the ticket itself (that can be stolen off the parked vehicle)?

[maddog04]

ticket inside the vehicle not outside, going to be fighting this one

[BBROWN1664]

Just ignore it Maddog. IF (big if) it goes to court, you have the ticket to prove you (well your son) had one. Tell the court that the NAZI inspector obviously was short on his numbers and did not look at the dash properly to see it.

[ghostbiker]

Also check out the Which website. As stated this is NOT an enfoceable PCN penalty charge notice. Personally I would ignore it completely and ignore the follow up threatening letters.
Wish I could say what I do for a living but am not allowed by my contract.... Some call me hittler and jobs worth......
Sooner the government tightens up on these firms the better. Legislation is there just not enforced enough with rogue firms.

[BBROWN1664]

:agree

:rollin

My Mrs was a yellow banded bitch employed by the plod for many years so know a few of the rules etc.

[maddog04]

I followed a previous link to the Consumer Action Group (CAG) and we've gone to appeal with the Governing body. The advice given was very specific and legal jargon used ......the advisor has fought numerous court cases with these cowboys and won and you wouldn't believe some of the stunts they pull. I appreciate the "just ignore" advice and if it was me I would have but I didn't want my son having to  deal with any potential shite from these Muppets while his mum is ill.
I'll post again when we have a result

[esetest]

Good  luck with the appeal , I would have done the same  if they would have rejected my letter .