Quote:Huh? Tell me where you would rather they failed?
Why - when I'm advising replacement of degraded hoses in order to eliminate failure in the first place? You can't choose where degraded hoses will fail, but you can pretty much guarantee that when they do it will be when they are under greater than normal pressure i.e. when practicing sharp braking or when actually attempting to avoid an accident i.e. "when shit is happeneing and you will die if you dont stop as quick as you would like".
Quote:If you don't trust your hoses to do the job, what the foc are you doing riding the bike in the first place?
We're not talking about my hoses or yours, if as I suspect the hoses in question are the OEM ones then they should already have been replaced and should be viewed as potentially unsafe. This is why I am advising that they be replaced as a matter of priority and why I think your advice to the contrary is inappropriate.
Quote:And if you don't see the point of trying to improve your braking technique, you probably never will.
You obviously didn't read my post properly, I never said that there was no point improving braking technique rather that there was no point doing so on a degraded failure prone braking system when the alternative was to fit new lines and learn how to make the best of a fully functional safe braking system.
The fact remains that Yamaha state clearly in the owners handbook that the OEM brake lines should be replaced after 4 years. For whatever reason people may choose not to replace the hoses within these timescales but given that the OEM lines are now more than double or even triple this age, they really ought to be replaced for safety reasons. Advice to the contrary is potentially putting peoples lives in danger.
Take a look why you should. Or at least replace them with NEW rubber ones (which is a bit of a pointless exercise as it'll happen again, and they're probably more expensive too)
http://xjbikes.com/forums/index.php?thre...ics.41400/
(15-12-14, 12:19 PM)PaulSmith link Wrote: One of the reasons manufacturers go with rubber hoses even on thier high end kit is that their bikes are sometimes bought by fools with no skill, experience or training. These are the sort of people who are more likely to grab at the brakes and so have a fractionally better chance of survivng if the breaks are soggy and slow to grip.
No manufacturer would use that logic. From both an engineering and marketing view it's doesn't make any sense.
(19-12-14, 09:09 AM)Simon.Pieman link Wrote: [quote author=PaulSmith link=topic=15480.msg177367#msg177367 date=1418642355]
One of the reasons manufacturers go with rubber hoses even on thier high end kit is that their bikes are sometimes bought by fools with no skill, experience or training. These are the sort of people who are more likely to grab at the brakes and so have a fractionally better chance of survivng if the breaks are soggy and slow to grip.
No manufacturer would use that logic. From both an engineering and marketing view it's doesn't make any sense.
[/quote]
It makes less sense to be known as the company that makes 'widowmakers'. Yamaha are believed to have a lot of potential sales in the seventies across all their bikes because they made the RD350. An absolute nutters bike deeply loved by nutters but it scared off many 'normal' bikers. And bikes that pitch inexperienced riders over the bars, even if they shouldn't be riding them in the first place, do not make good marketing material.
(17-12-14, 06:03 PM)PieEater link Wrote: You obviously didn't read my post properly, I never said that there was no point improving braking technique rather that there was no point doing so on a degraded failure prone braking system when the alternative was to fit new lines and learn how to make the best of a fully functional safe braking system. We are going around in circles here. I say he should practise to improve, then decide if he should change, you said he should change and then practise. If his brakes aren't good enough to practise safely, then he should not be riding the bike at all.
Wooden feeling braided front brakes are in my experience usually a factor of not being set up properly when installed.
I've had no problems with "feel" from any of the bikes I've put braided hoses on, but bleeding them properly in the early days was a nightmare. - it was only when I realised that "patience" was one of the best tools to use, that I got it right. Also, making sure my calipers got an overhaul when I did the brake lines helped.
My Aprilia RSV came with braided brake lines as standard and the "feel" from those brakes is unbelievable compared to old rubber hosed bikes.
It's defo worth replacing rubber with braided in my opinion (not that it carries much weight).
(19-12-14, 02:15 PM)PaulSmith link Wrote: It makes less sense to be known as the company that makes 'widowmakers'. Yamaha are believed to have a lot of potential sales in the seventies across all their bikes because they made the RD350. An absolute nutters bike deeply loved by nutters but it scared off many 'normal' bikers. And bikes that pitch inexperienced riders over the bars, even if they shouldn't be riding them in the first place, do not make good marketing material.
Eh? Well I've got you there, my first proddy racing bike was an RD350LC and that front brake wouldn't have you over the bars even if you fitted a servo. Weedy as hell and really not much different with braided hose, many of the lads didn't bother changing the hoses at all (plus we were all broke anyway, it wasn't cost effective 'lipstick on the gorilla').
And now you say the RD was bad for Yamahas reputation? Ha ha, you could hardly be more wrong, it made many many life devotees to the Yamaha brand, did that bike.
When I raced the RD my commuting bike was an XS250 (for er, 'normal' bikers) in almost any situation the XS was far more inadequate, too heavy, even worse brakes and handled like an armchair nailed to a skateboard. You were better off on a 'widowmaker' (actually I think that moniker was originally aimed at the HIE500)
(19-12-14, 03:47 PM)Millietant link Wrote: Wooden feeling braided front brakes are in my experience usually a factor of not being set up properly when installed.
I've had no problems with "feel" from any of the bikes I've put braided hoses on, but bleeding them properly in the early days was a nightmare. - it was only when I realised that "patience" was one of the best tools to use, that I got it right. Also, making sure my calipers got an overhaul when I did the brake lines helped.
My Aprilia RSV came with braided brake lines as standard and the "feel" from those brakes is unbelievable compared to old rubber hosed bikes.
It's defo worth replacing rubber with braided in my opinion (not that it carries much weight).
So you are saying hotmetal and I did not set up our brakes properly after fitting braided hoses, :rolleyes I think not.
I have ridden more bikes with and without braided hoses, changed more brake lines and overhauled more brakes than I can remember and have found the wooden feel on every fazer I have ridden with replacement braided hoses. :eek
If you like them fine, but I for one do not like them on the Fazer which is why I have new OEM type on my bikes.
Yet I thought the braided hose brakes on the BMW S1000rr, GSXR1000 and CBR1000RR with and without ABS great with good feel.
This is the very reason I suggest people, that if possible to ride one with braided hoses prior to fitting them to their fazer.
So, it seems to be a Fazer problem then, rather than a general braided hose problem Do you have any ideas why ? Is it down to the individual parts, or do you think there's some other issue ?
I've probably only done about 10 sets, so don't have a massive range of bikes for comparison, but I'll be doing my sons 600 brake lines over the year-end break, so will likely have a bit more feedback. I do know that I struggled to get proper feel & power when I did my first hose changes, but ever since (and once I stopped trying to rush it) they've been great.
I think it may be type of master cylinder, as R1s I have ridden with the same calipers and braided hoses felt better, not as nice as the original set up, but better that the fazer with braided hoses.
I've been active on these forums a while now and I don't recall ever having a thread where any negative effects of fitting braided lines has been discussed, particularly in connection with a wooden feel. I can recall a thread not so long back on brake pads, where it was pointed out the Sintered pads if not used aggressively can become glazed and lead to a wooden feel, I wander if this might not be a contributing factor in some of the negative posts?
thanks for all the imput there is nothing wrong with my brake lines its i want to colour code them blue to match the bike and i believe this would be the only way to do it
You could paint them :lol
He wants to colour code em BLUE....top man....he will be able to outbrake anyone
Just flapping about on this stagnant little pond on the outer rim of the internet.....yup.... :-))
(21-12-14, 02:54 PM)fazerblue link Wrote: thanks for all the imput there is nothing wrong with my brake lines its i want to colour code them blue to match the bike and i believe this would be the only way to do it
Hmmm, blue you say? Then it will slow it down more slowly. But if it is a blue bike, it will be going slowly anyway, so perhaps this might not be a problem :b
Sorry to get all technical on you, do carry on :lol
Actually, glazed pads could well be why I found some braided hose set ups to have a wooden feel. Hadn't thought of that. Also, I found the brakes to be pretty poor on mine at one point (OEM hoses), I think it was last year. Took the bike out for the express purpose of testing them, used loads of aggressive braking, and bingo! Effective brakes again.
Didn't we get discount from someone on braided hoses? Just thinking as mine are oem and 2001 santa might buy me some new ones. ?
(22-12-14, 12:41 AM)Andy FZS link Wrote: Didn't we get discount from someone on braided hoses? Just thinking as mine are oem and 2001 santa might buy me some new ones. ?
Can't find the original thread, but I think JoeRock got a 25% discount sorted for FOC-U members when ordering direct from HEL. There was a discount code ref. I think.
22-12-14, 10:34 AM
(This post was last modified: 22-12-14, 02:16 PM by PieEater.)
(22-12-14, 09:29 AM)nick crisp link Wrote: Can't find the original thread, but I think JoeRock got a 25% discount sorted for FOC-U members when ordering direct from HEL. There was a discount code ref. I think. Original post here - http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,8879.0.html
You'll need to give them a ring on 01392 811601 so that they can apply the discount for you, just remind them that there is a 25% discount for Fazer forum members. I've just bought a set (replacing transparent sleeve with all black "stealth" lines) so can confirm that this is still in place.
/Edit - If anyone could use my old lines maybe to try if you're in doubt whether braided lines are for you then drop me a PM. They won't be available until early Jan and I'm replacing them because the clear wrap is yellowing where they join the master cylinder but they are perfectly serviceable. I'd just want whoever has them to cover postage.
(21-12-14, 02:54 PM)fazerblue link Wrote: thanks for all the imput there is nothing wrong with my brake lines its i want to colour code them blue to match the bike and i believe this would be the only way to do it
If they're the originals then they're well past their change date!
Brake lines ordered today. 2 lines at the front 1 rear inc delivery -25% £73.73 s/s banjo stealth lines. Once delivered I'll get them fitted ready for hopefully warmer weather. Any suggestions or advantages / disadvantages of what fluid to use?
Cheers
Andy
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