quiet when cold, rattles like mad when warm ??

[markaboot]

first off yes i have searched    i just get bombarded with the usual cam chain rattle when cold until warm.


i have had cam chain rattle previously but usually sorts itself or the old roll backwards in gear trick sorts it.




however i have been riding all winter this year so probably never going over 6000 revs. so the slight rattle i could hear sounded like a lose nut or washer, nothing serious or loud just annoying.  thought it may have been valve clearances because it sounded a bit tapety.


last sunday i went for a blast, bike sounded normal at first but after half a day spirited ride i noticed the rattle was much louder. now after lunch it was quiet again untill it warmed up. it had a good blast all day and tensioner didnt adjust like i'd expect.


the rattle started at around 6000 like the usual vibration you usually get but over time its been kicking in lower down the revs. now its starts around 2000 revs and is much louder but still only when warm.


bike has only done 20,000. gets ridden daily 15min to work and back and the odd weekend blast in summer.


any ideas? surley cam chain isn't worn yet, they usually last 50000 dont they?

[darrsi]

From personal experience and reading on here they tend to start going around the 30,000 mark.


Any chance of a video when warmed up so we can hear it, it's quite a distinctive sound.


Or have a look through YouTube for other Fazer's rattle and see if it sounds the same.


They normally rattle more when cold though 'cos the oil's not warmed up, so that's a bit unusual.

[Dead Eye]

What makes you think that it isn't the cam chain?

Only real way to check is to remove the tensioner and see how many adjustments you have left, but that's not exactly the easiest job, especially if you have the carbs still in place. Plenty of other stories where the cam chain has rattled for 3-4k before it finally adjusts. I wouldn't have thought you'd need to replace it yet though...

[markaboot]

i will post a vid up soon. yea its unusual, thats why im stumped. otherwise i'd have put it down to cam chain. maybe the chain expands then becomes slack enough to rattle.


i'm not ruling out cam chain, it just seems unusual for it to go so early. i've had it rattle before but never so loud.


i'll stick the camera on n go out for a ride.

[Gnasher]

Is the noise still there if you pull the clutch in?  If you increase the revs does the noise go or get worse? 

[markaboot]

Is the noise still there if you pull the clutch in?  If you increase the revs does the noise go or get worse?

yea when i pull the clutch, roll and let revs drop noise goes. increased revs increases the rattle.
i'm having battery issues at the moment so haven't had chance to sort a video out.


however i did roll backwards down the back alley again and its seems to have improved slightly but hasn't cured it. its still there but not as loud.


i'm still thinking cam chain, need to get the carbs off n check the tensioner  :'(

[Fazerider]

Earplugs! 

[markaboot]

well i've had a play and all is not well  :'(


after following the haynes manual i removed the carbs the long and difficult way. got the tensioner out and it looked like this.



its spotless, no gunk, moves freely, little to no wear. i cant push the tensioner back out by hand without releasing the ratchet.  i counted 8 notches.


when pushed all the way out it looked like this

i counted about 13 or 14 notches at its maximum. so i don't think the chain is beyond its wear limit.


on the advice of a bike mechanic friend i added an extra bearing to increase the spring strength. i didnt have a bearing but used an m3 nut instead in this order.



i then put all the relevant bits back on etc etc and rode the bike home. as usual within ten mins of riding the rattle was back  :\  balls!


so earlier today i decided i would manually advance the tensioner by one click. got the carbs off again, this time without undoing everything as haynes suggests and just lifting them up out the way. as i put the tensioner back in (now adjusted by one click) it seemed tight before it reached the engine block, the bolts pulled it in the last 3mm or so.
everything back on, cracked her up and within ten mins engine is rattling away again, no change  >:  balls again!


now i have to repeat the whole process again to return the tensioner back it its correct auto adjusted position.






so i think i can safely rule out the cam chain tension as the problem?
so if its not cam chain rattle, what else could it be? valve clearances?


by the way if not already mentioned bike is just under the 20000 mark. sorry for the huge pics!

[markaboot]

also here is a video as promised


FZS600 Fazer Engine Rattle


this is after my short jouney home from work. also have a full length video of that journey so you can hear the noise develop, just waiting for it to upload.

[markaboot]

FZS600 engine rattle developing as engine warms


i know its long and dull and to most pointless but it does show the time scale at which this noise develops, for those that are interested lol.

[darrsi]

That's not cam chain rattle, it's not as harsh sounding as that.

[markaboot]

yea well i've had cam rattle before and it was never this harsh, plus with the tensioner checked i think i've ruled that out.

[unfazed]

Sounds like a dodgy water punp. Check and see if the noise is coming from around the front sprocket area.

[markaboot]

the noise is low down or central, tbh its really hard to pin point its location or even which side. i'll try the screwdriver to the ear trick tomorrow.

[markaboot]

Water pump is fine, no play, clean and no sign of any mayo.

Also did a compression check round my mates and got 90psi on each cylinder. Haynes says 170 min but I did this dry, with the other plugs in and a dieing batt.
Didn't want to bother him too long as he was busy but got even results so didn't put oil down.

He did suggest that as I have never changed the coolant it was possible that a previous owner has put some oil in instead of or as well as coolant to stop corrosion.

Think the next job is rocker cover off and check valve clearances.

[darrsi]

Bit stumped by this noise to be honest.
I just showed the first video to a mate of mine and you can hear the rattle much more clearly using a mobile phone, it makes the sound very prominent and separates it from normal engine noise.

[His Dudeness]

stick a screwdriver on the starter clutch cover and have a listen. they can rattle

[markaboot]

stick a screwdriver on the starter clutch cover and have a listen. they can rattle

will do, thanks.


i do have starting issues sometimes, where battery seems to die for no reason. i can crack bike up fine, ride 10 mins home, park up on the back alley open the gate. get back on and i have nothing, just dead.


guess i'll just have to keep pulling things apart till i find the problem.

[Gnasher]

the noise is low down or central, tbh its really hard to pin point its location or even which side. i'll try the screwdriver to the ear trick tomorrow.

Have you checked the carb balance as out of balance carbs can give you a very similar noise?

[markaboot]

[quote author=markaboot link=topic=7375.msg73968#msg73968 date=1367781248]
the noise is low down or central, tbh its really hard to pin point its location or even which side. i'll try the screwdriver to the ear trick tomorrow.

Have you checked the carb balance as out of balance carbs can give you a very similar noise?
[/quote]


carbs were balanced last year, can they really be that out in that space of time?