Why Can't I keep up with my friends ? Wise words of support :-)

[simonm]

I enjoyed this youtube video, made me feel a bit happier.


Title: Why can't I keep up with my friends ?



Why can't I keep up with my friends?

[ghostbiker]

On pleasure rides with friends we just tend to put the slowest rider at the front. Problem solved LOL
I do totaly agree though with a lot of that above. Including doing track days as they have calmed me just a smidgen on the roads. Not that I am crazed but I find it more fun on the track as your not worried about some fool from the other way or pot holes, cow shit etc.
Gravel traps also hurt less than a lamp post

[SEPTIKANGEL]

And on that day that you do suddenly find that you're catching up with your fast mate, don't be thinking 'how good am I?' ..... start thinking, 'what have I missed?' because your mate may be slowing for something you haven't yet seen.  Too many fall into the trap of  trying to build their own ego and rear end the bike they're following 'cos all they're watching is tail lights and not the road further ahead.  Ride within limits (your own) and lift your obs. further ahead.  Great video, enjoyed the Tuono laps of Donnington too from the link on first.

[clayt74]

good ole common sense!!! its what keeps us alive.
did anyone else spot his 180 degree view mirror!!! now that is something worth having!!! shame the only one i can find is £40 tho. still i might treat myself.

[Robbie8666]

enjoyed the video but spent most of it trying to work out what area of Nottingham he was riding around!!

[simonm]

Near Woolaton park, up from queens med.

[simonm]

Oops. No. That was the clutch less gear change video maybe. Time to watch it again.

[Poodyboy]

Worth thing in the world (rhetorically speaking), trying to ride beyond your limit (or that of the conditions).  Your sub-concious takes care of most of your riding, leaving you free to counciously do your observations, look for risks etc.  You start riding beyond your own point and that goes to crap, your sub-councious isn't happy to do it's thing, and you start trying to conciously deal with it, become overwhelmed, and make mistakes.

No substitute for putting the miles in. I've found as the years have passed that it feels like I'm going slower, but I've sped the hell up (to the point where I'm now conciously slowing myself down).

[slimwilly]

Geat bit of track riding, makes you want to get in  there

[ChristoT]

I do enjoy the Roadcraft vids. As many have already said, most of his advice is just common sense.

As for keeping up with friends, I'm normally able to keep up with the faster riders on the LoFo rideouts, despite my 33hp!  :lol

[cable tie]

enjoyed the video but spent most of it trying to work out what area of Nottingham he was riding around!!

Them rds are Woodhouse way, strelley rd, wigman rd could be beechdale rd near aspley lane, I work around that area some days the prefab houses and speed humps are on wigman rd, i suppose that's his daily commute because there not rds you would ride for pleasure and if you ever stopped to go into a shop when you come out your bike would be gone !

The areas are known as strelley, aspley, Broxtowe

[karlo]

[quote author=Robbie8666 link=topic=6622.msg1#msg1 date=1362576323]
enjoyed the video but spent most of it trying to work out what area of Nottingham he was riding around!!

Them rds are Woodhouse way, strelley rd, wigman rd could be beechdale rd near aspley lane, I work around that area some days the prefab houses and speed humps are on wigman rd, i suppose that's his daily commute because there not rds you would ride for pleasure and if you ever stopped to go into a shop when you come out your bike would be gone !

The areas are known as strelley, aspley, Broxtowe
[/quote]

Need to add Bilborough, Beechdale to that list Dave,  I know those area's well!

[Robbie8666]

I thought it looked like beechdale aspley way, not been round that area for a few years but the prefab housing looked so familiar I kne it was Nottingham & confirmed it with the bus going the other direction!

[Grahamm]

On pleasure rides with friends we just tend to put the slowest rider at the front. Problem solved LOL

Unless they don't want to ride Lead or someone else knows the route and they don't...

Another way is to use the "Buddy System" whereby you just keep the bike behind you in your mirrors so he can see where you're turning (if you're not following the road ahead) and if you don't see them for a little while, slow down to let them catch up, that way if there's a problem the knowledge will work its way up to the Lead Rider who can then slow down or even pull over to let everyone regroup.

[pitternator]

I wasnt 100% impressed with this " roadcraft" rider. He talks an awful lot, but I can find fault with much of his riding. Its yet another example of people believing the internet whatever...anyone can claim to be this or that ....I also dont agree with much of his opinions on bikes which I have owned.
As for group riding , keeping together can be  a major issue unless you adopt some form of riding rules...like say stick to speed limits, so everyone can easily keep together, or you develop a good riding relationship with like minded riders.I have heard so many tales of people crashing trying to catch up...thing is, once you put traffic and junctions on any group ride, inevitably you will get strung out. Best tactic is to have some sort of buddy system or regular stops. My ideal group is just 3 or 4 bikes, as any more than this u cant see last person in group easily.I usually lead on my foreign tours, over a week or so, and you have to have some form of system or back up.And thats following a set route ! To just ride out without any route or system, ultimately some will get lost.
Simon- fastest way to an early grave is to ride outside your comfort zone on todays roads m8...end of. It will take time to develop your ability , its  a process of  training and experience. You can help things along with various forms of  specific training , but like any sort of skill training , look on it like an apprenticeship.Its tempting to want to run before you can walk, but we are talking your safety  here.Kerbs and hedges dont take prisoners , let alone other solid objects ...
The IAM is a good starting point as they do all their training at legal speeds, after that  develop your own road speed to a point you feel comfortable.
I also feel track based training is invaluable as a tool to help you learn machine control and build up confidance in both you and your machines capability.Good track training is about handling the bike, cornering styles, how to brake ( yes !), rather than speed itself. Smoothness and accuracy is the key to faster speed.There is an  optimal line for any corner , this has to be learnt to ride faster.
On the road, you have to develop your observational skills to a very high degree to ride fast in safety...many times safety wont allow the fastest course on a given road.The guys in front may well have just chanced their luck, and the next bloke will cop the hazard!

[simonm]

I wasnt 100% impressed with this " roadcraft" rider. He talks an awful lot, but I can find fault with much of his riding. Its yet another example of people believing the internet whatever...anyone can claim to be this or that ....I also dont agree with much of his opinions on bikes which I have owned.
As for group riding , keeping together can be  a major issue unless you adopt some form of riding rules...like say stick to speed limits, so everyone can easily keep together, or you develop a good riding relationship with like minded riders.I have heard so many tales of people crashing trying to catch up...thing is, once you put traffic and junctions on any group ride, inevitably you will get strung out. Best tactic is to have some sort of buddy system or regular stops. My ideal group is just 3 or 4 bikes, as any more than this u cant see last person in group easily.I usually lead on my foreign tours, over a week or so, and you have to have some form of system or back up.And thats following a set route ! To just ride out without any route or system, ultimately some will get lost.
Simon- fastest way to an early grave is to ride outside your comfort zone on todays roads m8...end of. It will take time to develop your ability , its  a process of  training and experience. You can help things along with various forms of  specific training , but like any sort of skill training , look on it like an apprenticeship.Its tempting to want to run before you can walk, but we are talking your safety  here.Kerbs and hedges dont take prisoners , let alone other solid objects ...
The IAM is a good starting point as they do all their training at legal speeds, after that  develop your own road speed to a point you feel comfortable.
I also feel track based training is invaluable as a tool to help you learn machine control and build up confidance in both you and your machines capability.Good track training is about handling the bike, cornering styles, how to brake ( yes !), rather than speed itself. Smoothness and accuracy is the key to faster speed.There is an  optimal line for any corner , this has to be learnt to ride faster.
On the road, you have to develop your observational skills to a very high degree to ride fast in safety...many times safety wont allow the fastest course on a given road.The guys in front may well have just chanced their luck, and the next bloke will cop the hazard!

Nobody is perfect, but being a novice I'm watching and learning and asking as many questions as I can.  I'm booked in for a bike safe course in April and I'm planning on doing an IAM course afterwards.  The only issue I have is that I don't want to waste a course being too inexperienced to make the most out of simple exercises.  I'm doing quite a bit of rising (I've done about 500 miles in the month since I've passed my test) but I alternate between happy, confident and scared witless and jumpy.  I'm sure as I get some experience and keep learning I'll become a better rider.


Thanks for your 2p tho.

[sure2ride]

Simon

Dunno if anyones mentioned it but you can buy the Police Motorcycle Roadcraft handbook (£9.52 on Play.com) I found that quite useful when new to biking.  I think there may be a slightly newer version available, but probably a bit pricier.  fwiw I did the bikesafe course and found it very good, I reckon its a good place to start. Good luck, ride safe.

[pitternator]

Simon
Couple of things..first , advanced training is usually tailored to the rider, ie your level of experience. While I wouldnt say get some advanced training immediately after your bike test , peoples experience, speed of learning and enthusiasm does vary. Hence one immediate test passer could be a candidate for immediate further training.
Two, a good trainer will pick out those areas you most need to work on, usually found after an observed ride. I was an observer for several years and have even coached guys who are racing, on their road skills.They would no doubt be quicker on track than me , but in this case needed help on the road.In point of fact it was the Isle of Man !..lol

You do seem preoccupied with going fast on the road.Which is a bit worrying as its not the most important facet of your riding just now.I like to think I am a reasonably quick road rider , but often I get overtaken on the road..just cos they are riding fast doesnt mean they are good riders.I have been on rideouts with some absolute nutters...and I will just let them go. My riding is my own domain, if I dont feel comfortable I wont pursue.There is also the issue of getting done for speeding . TBH the more experienced rider will know when its prudent to have a bit of a blast , and when to just ride at more reailistic speed.I have no inbuilt speed camera detector, but on a bike I have never been actually prosecuted for speeding...which when I look back , is as maybe as  much luck as judgement !...you can have fun on a bike without speeding everywhere. But many rider groups end up going faster and faster ... As the guy in the vid says, they probably aint the best to ride with., as such it may be more prudent to ride out with people at or just above your level of experience.I do know of a lad , riding with 2 other riders, felt was getting left behind, overcooked a bend, crashed , and lost a leg. Its no place to be , and all for just trying to keep up with so called " mates"....
I tend to pick my roads to have fun on, roads which are inherantly safer or where the level of hazard is observable, and possible to control at speed.Riding an unknown road at speed in excess of your comfort zone is very difficult , and probably not enjoyable.It only takes a seconds loss of concentration at speed to have a spill too.
If you do a trackday for instance , the level of concentration is extremely high, and its surprising just how tiring even a 20 min session can be at that intensity, and thats on a course where you know exactly what is coming up ! The roads are infinitely more dangerous.Most people enjoy riding at much lower levels of concentration, so they can absorb all which is going on.
I suppose I could summarize it all by saying look at your level of expectation from your ability at the moment.

[simonm]

I would hope I'm not preoccupied with going fast. That would be a sure fire way of getting dead quickly .

My plan is to become more confident on two wheels. With a car I've never had to worry about gravel on the road, or degrees of front to rear braking either. I've got safety back ups like abs and airbags.

I want to ride well and be safe. I'm not interested in speed apart from in a straight line or the buzz of acceleration on exiting a bend.

I think I'm doing okay, I just need experience and training. The only thing that worries me about track days is wrecking myself, the bike and getting appropriate insurance and another helmet (I don't see any race stickers on either of my caberg helmets)

Simon

[Buzz]

I did a BikeSafe course in North London last year, about 6 months into my riding, and found it a bit frustrating because of the pairing up you get.

I can get from A-B pretty safely but do it at my own pace, the other guy who I was with however was a nutter...and rather than the copper with 20 years experience keeping with me, the inexperienced rider, and controlling the pace both him and the nutter shot off from the gun leaving me behind....i'm not joking when I say I was on the verge of going home as I hadn't seen either of them for about 30 mins on the country road ride. 

After I'd finished being monitored/followed we stopped at a cafe to get a drink and the nutter starts having a go at me in front of the copper about being too slow and said "what's the point of having a 600 if I'm going to ride it like a pussy!?"...err, whatevs.

So it was a useful course for road positioning and observation but just make sure you get someone who wants to ride like you do or you might find the road rides sections are a bit crap...the copper did say to me in my debrief that the nutter was a good rider but riding right on the limit, said he was dreading hitting a patch of diesel or gravel.

I've learnt from that nutter that I'd rather get there 5 mins later than not at all, life's too short.