votes for prisoners

[Grahamm]

Prison should be a locked room 24/7 except to shower/eat. Rest of the time, in the room, no tv, no playstation, no snooker table etc.

Yes, because that worked *so* well back in Victorian times when they tried it.

Hell, why don't be bring back breaking rocks or turning a crank or the treadmill too? They worked well in the past, didn't they? After all, that's why we still use them now...

If you are sentenced to 10 years, you should do 10 years. None of this parole crap. No early releases for 'good behaviour'!

Right, so how much extra in taxes would you pay to cover the cost of building the extra prisons needed, employing more guards, feeding prisoners for all that extra time and so on which that would involve??

I think if ^^ were the case, criminals may think a little harder about what it's like inside.

"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it" - George Satayana.

[Grahamm]

I think those who rant about human rights legislation seem to forget our recent history and our long struggle for a just society. 

Very true. They also haven't looked back at history and seen *WHY* we have the European Convention on Human Rights.

Maybe they just aren't familiar with terms like "Untermensch"...

It's about time the UK stopped trying to export justice to dodgy dictator lead states with no or barely functioning legal systems.

Or, indeed, *supporting* dodgy dictator lead states (Pinochet, Mubarak, Al Saud...)

[VNA]

Indeed we are world leaders in supporting despots, dictators and terrorists.  Good to see DC back touring the middle east touting and trying to sell em yet more 'defence' equipment.

If you are sentenced to 10 years, you should do 10 years. None of this parole crap. No early releases for 'good behaviour'!

Yeah, and what you gonna do when all the prison guards walk in protest at any such proposal.  Straight sentences means no incentive to behave.  A nightmare for prisons guards. 

[Tori]

Clearly I'm a bitch for having an opinion. So much for polite debate!

[Tori]

If they were locked in a cell they could misbehave all they like. There's always a do gooder bleating on about human rights and how we're 'too harsh'. Fine. You pay for it then! I pay tax towards things I'm never going to use, let them have a different tax code when they come out too and pay some of it back!

Incentive to behave my arse.

[Lawrence]

If you are sentenced to 10 years, you should do 10 years. None of this parole crap. No early releases for 'good behaviour'!

Yeah, and what you gonna do when all the prison guards walk in protest at any such proposal.  Straight sentences means no incentive to behave.  A nightmare for prisons guards.

How about instead of a reduced sentence for good behaviour, you get an extended one for bad behaviour?

[Tori]

:lol Works for me ;-)

[MadDogMcQ]

Clearly I'm a bitch for having an opinion. So much for polite debate!

Oh come on Tori - It was humour!  And it was the prisoner who called you that, not me  :lol

I'm with you all the way!

[DryRob]

We don't need to build extra prisons, have you ever stayed in a Butlins holiday camp? The threat of being sent to one of them would fix this problem overnight.

Seriously though, this is a complex problem and the solutions usually touted by wannabe governments are far too simple to be effective. The alternative of propper prisoner reform costs money and isn't a vote winner so the problem will continue.

[Grahamm]

The alternative of proper prisoner reform costs money and isn't a vote winner so the problem will continue.

Which is a shame, because it's been shown to be a lot more effective than the "Get tough, Prison Works!" nonsense touted by politicians who want to pander to the media and to public ignorance rather than actually do something about the problem...

http://www.restorativejustice.org.uk/

[BBROWN1664]

How about this?

All lifers are put into an old navy aircraft carrier and taken out to the mid Atlantic where the ship can be used for target practice by anyone with a cannon?
All long term prisoners are locked in their cells 23.5 hours a day and only allowed out to empty their crap buckets?
All short term prisoners (under 5 years??) are put on chain gangs and put to work in the community wearing bright pink jumpsuits.

It might prevent re-offending.

Oh and Graham, the reason we moved away from the strict Victorian system wasn't because it didn't work, it did, it was because of soft MP's.

[Grahamm]

How about this?

[...]

It might prevent re-offending.

Oh and Graham, the reason we moved away from the strict Victorian system wasn't because it didn't work, it did, it was because of soft MP's.

Clueless.

Try reading some history of prisons and you'll see just how "succesful" the Victorian system and others like it were at preventing reoffending...

[phillywilly]

bbbrown - the whole world has gone soft  :'( :'( it is a given fact isnt it that if you knew you would be put on an aircraft carrier and used for target practise ,you would be deterred from doing  armed robbery or whatever else these scum bags do 
make all them sow mailbags for 20 hours a day for 10 pence and then when they leave prison after spending 20 years in a 6ft by 6ft cell with straw for the bed TATTOO on their forehead the crime they done so they have a reminder for rest of their lives what a past they have !!!
give me a tattoo gun -i,ll do it
if the country has gone this soft in the last 40 years ,then what the hell will it be like in 40 years time ?

[Slaninar]

bbbrown - the whole world has gone soft  :'( :'( it is a given fact isnt it that if you knew you would be put on an aircraft carrier and used for target practise ,you would be deterred from doing  armed robbery or whatever else these scum bags do 

You somehow take it for granted that criminals are being rational. They do fear the punishment, but it's not like they all make calculated career choices when breaking the law. It doesn't work that way.

[DryRob]

then what the hell will it be like in 40 years time ?

Since we are an island nation we could exploit that and be turned into a European super prison island. Just build a massive wall around the coast, remove all technology, airdrop in new prisoners and supplies in and let them sort it out between themselves. The money would allow us to purchase an island in the south pacific called Betterer Great Britain.

I jest, it should be called Great Brian.

Prison systems around the world vary in terms of prisoner quality of life and crime is still committed when prison conditions are terrible. The severity of punishment is not a deterrent if you don't think there is anything wrong with breaking the law or that you will not be caught.

[Grahamm]

it is a given fact isnt it that if you knew you would be put on an aircraft carrier and used for target practise ,you would be deterred from doing  armed robbery or whatever else these scum bags do 

No, it's complete bullshit.

"The Bloody Code is a term used to refer to the system of laws and punishments in England between 1688 and 1815. It was not referred to as such in its own time, but the name was given later owing to the sharply increased number of crimes that attracted the death penalty such as capital crimes."

So, what happened? Crime stopped because you could be hanged for "Grand larceny, defined as the theft of goods worth more than 12 pence"? Well, no, it didn't.

So what did happen? Answer Juries would deliberately (and often massively) underestimate the value of goods so people would not be sentenced to death because, incredibly enough, most people are not complete sociopaths and whilst they may talk big (especially on internet forums!) when it actually comes to passing a guilty verdict which would take someone's life, they are not willing to do so.

And, frankly, anyone who *could* do such a thing is the one who *REALLY* should be locked up for the protection of society!!

[Pat]

[quote author=phillywilly link=topic=5374.msg47264#msg47264 date=1353954489]
bbbrown - the whole world has gone soft  :'( :'( it is a given fact isnt it that if you knew you would be put on an aircraft carrier and used for target practise ,you would be deterred from doing  armed robbery or whatever else these scum bags do 

You somehow take it for granted that criminals are being rational. They do fear the punishment, but it's not like they all make calculated career choices when breaking the law. It doesn't work that way.
[/quote]

Precisely!!

The single largest group of prisoners these days  (~50%) are druggies that are mugging/shoplifting/burgling in order to score their next fix, throw in the fact that most violent crime is comitted by people that have been drinking.  It shows how little understanding of the situation that the Daily Mail  readers have that they think either of these groups take time to consider the possible outcome of their actions.

As does the suggestion to extend sentences for bad behaviour rather than reduce it for good.  In order to make someone spend time behind bars it's neccessary to follow the legal process of charging them with an offence, trying & convicting them in a court & finally sentencing them.  Therefore if someone is serving a sentence & commits an offence that's not an imprisonable one, you can't extend their sentence.  If they do then you have to go through the judicial process &  follow the laws of the land to do it, allowing time off for good behaviour sidesteps all this time, effort & expense as they've already been sentenced.  It also helps the prison staff too, as it reduces general low level disruptive behaviour which in itself may not be a criminal offence, but can currently be punished by loss of remission.

[Slaninar]

The single largest group of prisoners these days  (~50%) are druggies that are mugging/shoplifting/burgling in order to score their next fix,

In my country, 90% of violent crime (robberies, brake and enter etc) could be stopped if addicts were allowed to plow fields and raise crops to make heroin for their own use. It would be free, society would be a lot less dangerous. However, government agencies and mafia (who pay politicians) would be out of business. They use drug money for financing and legalizing would make them loose a lot of money. Some people profit from high crime rate.

[John Silva]

[quote author=phillywilly link=topic=5374.msg47264#msg47264 date=1353954489]
then what the hell will it be like in 40 years time ?

Since we are an island nation we could exploit that and be turned into a European super prison island. Just build a massive wall around the coast, remove all technology, airdrop in new prisoners and supplies in and let them sort it out between themselves. The money would allow us to purchase an island in the south pacific called Betterer Great Britain.

I jest, it should be called Great Brian.
[/quote]


:eek And just how are the illegal drug dealing benifit scrounging immigrants suppose to get in then.  :\

:b :b :b

[phillywilly]

[quote author=DryRob link=topic=5374.msg47272#msg47272 date=1353959186]
[quote author=phillywilly link=topic=5374.msg47264#msg47264 date=1353954489]
then what the hell will it be like in 40 years time ?

Since we are an island nation we could exploit that and be turned into a European super prison island. Just build a massive wall around the coast, remove all technology, airdrop in new prisoners and supplies in and let them sort it out between themselves. The money would allow us to purchase an island in the south pacific called Betterer Great Britain.

I jest, it should be called Great Brian.
[/quote]


:eek And just how are the illegal drug dealing benifit scrounging immigrants suppose to get in then.  :\

:b :b :b
[/quote]




by the good old fashioned "HUMAN RIGHTS " asylum -"you give me benefits,house , free medical treatment ,schooling ,more benefits ,then when i get old free pensions,and old peoples home ,without me paying a penny into the society asylum human rights  :rolleyes