Jim'll fiddle it

[Lazarus]

apparently Freddie Starr is the next to be outed.

[wannafazer]

They've just found his diary. His last entry was ten years old.

[alan sherman]

Should those around at the time have spoken out?  I think it depends.  To me there is a difference between acting on rumours (very dodgy - rumours may not be true) and acting on evidence.

Speaking out on a rumour alone would be a very stupid thing for anyone to have done - he was a well known star, it would have killed your career, and potentially ruined an innocent man.

The real issue is those that were closer and had actual evidence of dodgy stuff.  They should have acted and it is the identities of these people that will the interesting piece of this story.  This develops into the question of whether management had evidence presented to them, how damning that was, and what action was taken because of it.

[chaz]

apparently Freddie Starr is the next to be outed.d

did he sh*g that hamster before he ate it?

[chaz]

We shouldn't be making light of this, abuse is a very evil thing but the world was a different place 40 or 50 years ago, if a teacher inflicted the injuries I got as a 11 year old, when I got the cane,  they would go to jail for it now. Mind you it made sure you didn't do anything wrong or at least make sure you didn't get found out.

[Fazerider]

I have no difficulty in finding the allegations plausible... always thought he was a revolting old creep.
It's a shame the victims have only now found the courage to speak out, when it's too late, but given the attitudes of the time and the sheer force of the man's personality, it's understandable.
What puzzles me is that if the BBC was aware of allegations and rumours at the time, even if there was no substance to them, why didn't they protect St. Jimmy as well as these vulnerable kids by insisting on chaperones?

[Rusty]

I think from the BBC's standpoint they wanted to protect an 'asset'. Damaging him would also be damaging to them, after all he was the Top of the Pop's frontman for years and must have represented a considerable investment. I'm going to say a very Un-PC thing here, but in good faith. Television is full gay people, and by the attitudes of the day homosexuals were often considered to be sexually deviant.


Given that, is it possible that even Saville's activity was known about and considered to be merely his own particular deviance?

[jackojet]

What about Rod Hull ?

He got away with fisting a bird for years! :rolleyes :lol

[Fazerider]

@Rusty. Yes, I guess they thought they were protecting an asset... I think they could have done that more effectively by making a rule that underage guests were never allowed in the dressing rooms of any performers unless they were accompanied by a BBC-designated responsible adult of the same gender. It would protect the kids, the "asset" against false accusations and the BBC against accusations of complicity and cover-ups. The most cunning of bullying, pervert superstars would find it hard to provide a valid argument against such a rule.


I'm not sure what your point is regarding homosexuality. Even in the 70's sex with children was illegal.

[pitternator]

couple of things to consider to put this in context-

1. the 60s and 70s were a time when there was a constant string of groupies shagging all the popstars and DJs...to my mind we need to be sure some of this is not just slut groupies trying to cash in on this bandwagon. were they willing , or were they raped ??

2. he must have been feckin good at his work if he kept all this so quiet for so long.I still think its shameless bandwaggoning. Lets be honest , our media would  publish photographs of  Princess di with her head cut in half if they thought it would sell papers. How can we  be sure that any of this is true.

3. there are clear proven cases of unknown/ poor people to lie barefaced to gain notoriety ...look at sharon mathews...went on telly , crying , pleading with the world to bring her daughter back...she knew where she was all the time.Utter barefaced unashamed lying.

I would want  a much bigger proof of all this b4 I would condemn the bloke. he did an amazing amount for charity. I think its wrong until we know the full facts ( if that is ever possible)... he was an icon in my teens. :\

[VNA]

Did you see the documentary Pitternator?

As Rantzen said "The jury is no longer out"

[Rusty]

I'm not sure what your point is regarding homosexuality. Even in the 70's sex with children was illegal.

Just thinking out loud really. Until the 60's homosexuality was illegal too wasn't it? I just thought that perhaps BBC people didn't like to talk about such things, or perhaps even blocked out the rumours just as they might have done about gays. I wasn't there so can't know, but those that were there do and are saying nowt.

[pitternator]

VNA
None of us can corroborate any of these " victim" statements. Like I say ..sharon mathews lyed barefaced to all and sundry for her own aims. I can feel for anyone who has been genuinely abused , but in my op...its all one sided " evidence".Esther rantzen is also in an awkward position since she may well have known about these alleged occurrences, but said and did nothing. Almost an accomplice then , by aiding in any " cover up"??...Jeremy Vine asked her some quite awkward questions recently on radio2..


How would you react if someone you met 20 yrs ago said today you raped them ! ....go on, just what would you say and  do ??

[fireblake]

Now they are talking about John Peel too. So far only Freddie Starr is alive to argue back but he looks like he may peg it any time soon?


Gutted for John's family though?

[Streetbudgie]

Apparantly his gravestone has been removed for 'security reasons' http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/showbiz/news...tions.html

[Robbie8666]

We shouldn't be making light of this, abuse is a very evil thing but the world was a different place 40 or 50 years ago, if a teacher inflicted the injuries I got as a 11 year old, when I got the cane,  they would go to jail for it now. Mind you it made sure you didn't do anything wrong or at least make sure you didn't get found out.

I agree we shouldn't make light of this but you cant compare sexual abuse to corporal punishment.
Yes the cane has been banned & if a teacher now uses it there would be an investigation. valid point that it was also a deterrent however that is a totally different thread.

How would you react if someone you met 20 yrs ago said today you raped them ! ....go on, just what would you say and  do ??

ok my wife was abused as a 10 year old and found out very recently that the abusers were abusing her sister at the same time.
even 30+ years on I asked why they didn't report it to the police. the reply from both victims was that it would kill their parents to know what had happened to them by people that they trusted!!!

they have both become strong people but the "strength" (for want of a better word) of an abuser is that they know that they can instill fear into their victims by telling them that even if they were to tell then who would believe them!!
Even now the abuser stil has the upper hand knowing what effect reporting an incident this late on will have.

[Phil TK]

Until the 60's homosexuality was illegal too wasn't it? I just thought that perhaps BBC people didn't like to talk about such things, or perhaps even blocked out the rumours just as they might have done about gays. I wasn't there so can't know, but those that were there do and are saying nowt.

Read your own paragraph carefully. You've just turned a groundless speculation into a conspiracy theory.

'those that were there do and are saying nowt'

Or perhaps it wasn't the case at all. Hence they are saying nowt

[SteveH41]

Gives Sky News something to bang on about for the next 6 months.

I'm more interested to see that bastard who killed the welsh kiddy hang from his bollocks until dead.

If Carlsberg did hangings...........................

[pitternator]

My issue is the almost hysterical way claims are now being made about someone who is dead, cannot answer to any allegation , has a incredible record of raising money for charity ( which so few people do these days), and now all that has been destroyed by the media. Take a step back and look at the process...its a witchhunt .Nobody can be safe if this indeed is how such matters are handled.Any claim, is the truth , guilty till proven innocent.
The latest " claim" is now he only raised millions for charity so he could abuse kids...am I the only one who feels uneasy at such ludicrous  speculation ?? FFs just who will be next ...??

At the end of all this..will we be any better off for it ???....just why didnt any of these adults come forward before his death ??...IMO by doing so now actually makes any investigation meaningless as he cant be brought to justice or any punishment if he was guilty.

I spose next  it will be war heroes were cowards, straight blokes were gay  etc...there could be no end to such claims...

[Streetbudgie]

My issue is the almost hysterical way claims are now being made about someone who is dead, cannot answer to any allegation , has a incredible record of raising money for charity ( which so few people do these days), and now all that has been destroyed by the media. Take a step back and look at the process...its a witchhunt

Take your point but I saw on the news that his own family have taken down his headstone (already mentioned that) but then smashed it up - sounds to me like they knew what he was up to but like a lot of others couldn't say anything because of his position.

Anyway for his own family to smash up his headstone is pretty damming don't you think?

Regarding so few people raising money for charity these days - Every week there's a stories in my local rag, on my intranet at work and in my local pub about charity events, individual and group efforts and all sorts of opportunites to raise money by doing a parachute jump, wing walk etc.

Even my local classic scooter club does charity ride outs.

I think there's lots of people doing lots of charity raising and volunteer work, they just don't shout about it and present themselves as a child lover on the TV while do so.