deja vu !

[ratfazer]

Is the TPS connected?  Maybe the fuel filter "inside" the tank is gummed up not allowing enough fuel through?.  Could be a bad earth?  these are all i can suggest good luck mate.

[clayt74]

sorry i was talkin utter BS  :o 

[ade the blade]

sorry i was talkin utter BS  :o

lost me now mate !

[ade the blade]

Is the TPS connected?  Maybe the fuel filter "inside" the tank is gummed up not allowing enough fuel through?.  Could be a bad earth?  these are all i can suggest good luck mate.

tps checked and connected......tank gauze filter fine.............been through leccy system with a lot of patience, all fine from what i see.
thanks for taking time to add input   Ade

[red98]

thinking out loud....ive been searching on ebay for fazer bits,mainly carbs and coils,although you cant gaurentee any of the parts i still think a cheap set of carbs/coils will help in problem solving,and you can always sell them on afterwards...iam watching a few ads and might make a bid if its cheap.....would`nt want to keep the parts on my bike,purly for problem solving.......

[Fazerider]

If it's getting starved of fuel at larger throttle openings then, since you're sure the float bowls are supplied, I can only think it's the slides failing to rise which could be due to an obstruction in the pipe supplying air to the underside of the diaphragms. Is the path from the airbox via the little gauze filter clear? (Clutching at straws here, I doubt you'd have missed that since you've had 'em to bits so many times... also it doesn't tally with the performance improving slightly when you partially blocked the airbox intake.)
I agree with Red98, once brain power has failed to diagnose the cause of the problem, eliminating suspects by substitution usually gets results. Ideally from a trusting foccer nearby who is prepared to lend his vehicle as a source of known good bits rather than by buying possibly equally duff items off eBay. :lol 
TPS, CDI and carbs would be top of the swaps in my book.


I also wonder if we're following red herrings and the cause is elsewhere entirely: inlet valve timing slipped a tooth or two late perhaps? Did you check the timing as well as the clearances?

[red98]

yes much better to use know parts from a friends bike,but friends like that are few and far between,if i get mine sorted this weekend i would be happy to swap parts to get yours sorted...where are you ?
  think i`ll still take a chance on the ebay parts they will have to be cheap though......

[ade the blade]

hello, good evening and welcome once again to red and ades fu...... fazer corner folks !! well ive had a little read of the last few posts and totally agree with fazerider and red with regards aquiring test parts. it seems the only option now. i have the same problem with regards other local fazer riding mates....................none. ( would be spoilt for choice if it was a bloody fiesta !! :lol ) anyway, before i forget, fazerider, the valve timing was double checked anyway whilst the cover was off for clearances and yep all was lined up nicely with my own timing marks. thanks anyway. now for some new info that may or may not have some bearing on this bloody ongoing farce. i thought id re-check all the ignition circuit once again ( out of sheer boredom really ) but this time used my neighbours multimeter to confirm or indeed rule out my one being on the blink. guess what? everything on both the meters apart from both yes both coil primary / low tension circuits read the same resistance. however, the reading for these were within spec on my meter, but with the neighbours meter ( both digital by the way ) showed a different story. according to shop manual resistance should be between 1.87 and 2.53 ohms . both were giving a reading of between 4.5 and 5 ohms. according to yam workshop manual, its bin time. so now i have 2 questions for you if you aint lost the will to live yet :z  1)  i would accept one coil breaking down at some point, but two together ? 2) if this is relevant in any way, what connection, if any could this possibly have with improving performance slightly by blocking off part of the air intake ? please discuss. sorry its long winded but obviously kicked off too early on the magners tonight. burp.............scuse me ! :lol

[red98]

not too good on electrics plus its been a long week....are you saying that both multimeters are giving readings between 4.5 and 5.0....if thats the case i would say there pretty close and as you say bin time,as regards both coils failing together,could one faulty coil put extra load on the other OR is there one faulty coil affecting the performance of the other.......the improved performance when blocking  the air supply,i think ,is a bit of a red herring,but if the coils have failed this could well be your problem

[ade the blade]

evening mate.............long week alright ! both coils were in spec on my meter, but coil A ( plugs 1 and 4 ) showed approx 4.5 and coil B ( 2 and 3 plugs ) approx 5.0 on his meter. and it was a nice newish all singing- all dancing bugger.........snob :lol . think tour poss right mate with regards filter red herring ( or should that be manky bloater :rolleyes  ) any joy with your machine anyway?

[ade the blade]

meant to say mate, i did think the intake block may possibly be masking another more important fault like the coils and thats why now, i`m tending to lean towards the problem being down to an ignition fault...........carbs as i have mentioned umpteen times before are fine. no damaged parts or mal-adjustments. they have now been ruled out full stop. ( time to be a man about it  :b )

[Fazerider]

I wouldn't place too much reliance on the measurement of dc resistance of the coils.. it'll tell you if there's an open circuit, but not much beyond that.
In this case I'd guess the slightly high reading is either contact resistance or that of the leads of the meter.
Coils normally fail in one of two ways, either one winding goes open circuit or one develops a short between adjacent turns... the latter isn't detectable with an ordinary meter, but it'll kill the spark. What's more, the short can be intermittent, often dependent on temperature. Swapping some known good coils in is the only easy way to check unless you've access to test equipment that'll measure mutual inductance. 

[ade the blade]

thanks fazerider. that calls for another magners :lol

[Dead Eye]

thanks fazerider. that calls for another magners :lol

Sounds good to me, cheers *clink*  :lol

I've been following out of sheer curiosity now and have mentioned it to several friends who are also bewildered. I unfortunately am not technical enough to provide any assistance that this point

[red98]

morning all....i think your on to something with the different readings on the coils although as fazerrider states dont rely on the readings what you can rely on is the differencs in the readings...go compere (sing out loud if you want)       
i had my multimeter stolen at work a few months ago i`ll see if i can replace it today and do the same test and compare with your figures , iam also still watching several auctions on ebay for carbs and coils with most ending this weekend,will make a bid if the price is right
iam starting to think the same as you theres only so much that can go wrong with carbs and there pretty easy to understand,when i eventually get my carbs back i dont think the problem will be solved but i can then elimante the carbs as the source of the problem.
thinking back to autumn last year i did notice that the fazer was struggling to start, normanly on the button hardly turning over,wonder if this was early stages of coil failer  :rolleyes ....or just the origanal battery getting tired :\

[John Silva]

Also check the generator voltage

[red98]

afternoon ade the blade....ive been shopping this morning and bought myself an EX-ARMY MISSILE LAUNCHER :rollin :rollin :rollin ..............just made that up,what i did buy was a new multi meter,ive now done the same checks as you on the coils
                              primary coils                          secondary coils

    coil 2 +3                  2.7 ohms                                  14.1

    coil 1 + 4                2.7 ohms                                  14.5 

a little high on the primary readings (should be 1.87 - 2.53 )and just about bang on with the secondary ( should be 12 -18 k-ohms ) ..... also checked the caps old origanal ones range from  10.0  10.7  10.8  12.3.....should be 10k-ohms so no real dramas there , last one may be questionable....the new ngk caps are printed on the sides 5 ohms and readings are 4.7  5.1  5.2  5.5  again no problems
looking at your readings on your neighbours mulitmeter it is suggesting that the coils are out of spec,which is one hell of a coincidence  unless of cause something else has caused the coils to fail....i`ll look at the wiring diagram and see what i can learn
anyone know why the ngk readings are 50% lower by design ?  and would this affect performance ? 

[Fazerider]

Red, the value of the plug cap resistance isn't critical. The purpose of the resistor is to damp out any high frequency oscillation that could cause interference to radios. 5k ohms will do the job just as well as 10k and it'll have no effect on the spark, but if one of a set is a fair way out from the others it might indicate the resistor is breaking down.

[red98]

thanks for that fazerider.....ade the blade,have you made any progress today

[ade the blade]

thanks for that fazerider.....ade the blade,have you made any progress today

managed to draw a cracking figure of eight with me todger........does that count?  :lol . no tinkering today. had a bit of a coolant leak to sort on me own bike......that takes priority, bitch. may take a peek in the morn. interesting results ya got on that meter then? keep dancing.........er sorry wrong show.........keep searching..............tess daly, mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm :b :b :b