Suspension

[frostman]

As i have already said i am new to bikes, i sometimes feel the back or front tyre twitch but this could be in my mind. I have checked the tyre pressures and their ok. The twitch could be in my mind and nerves but as the bike is a second hand Fazer 1000 Gen 1 i have been thinking the previous owner may have been adjusting it to suit him/herself and it may not be right for me. I weigh 19stone can anyone advise me on what settings the front and rear suspension should be on.

Thanks

F

[PieEater]

More info needed.
What tyres have you got fitted and what pressures are you using?
Have you got any fork leg showing through the yoke top?
Does the rear shock look standard (stepped preload adjuster with red spring)?

Reply #2 in this thread has the base settings you should try.

[frostman]

Bit of a climb in to Garage, they are Bridgstone and less than 6 months old Battlax Bt 21f on front and Battlax Bt 023 on back rear pressure is 40psi and fromt is 36psi. The spring is red as you said, the top of the forks under the handle bar have a screw and a the screw points in the middle of between h-s

f

[noggythenog]

It is so technical and difficult to both understand fully...and even more difficult to explain.


I've been on here trying to figure the suspension on my Gen2 fazer and it has been interesting to get the just of what it is all about......but i still haven't got it right yet.....small adjustments make a big difference.




Everyone says to set up the preload first......on most budget bikes then you can only ever set up preload anyway.....for instance my 600 had preload adjusters on the front forks at the top of the forks which were wound inwards or outwards to change preload....it was a 2001.....but some of the previous models didn't even have this on the  forks.....the 600 also had a preload adjustor on the rear shock......this time it was a plastic collar around the top of the shock spring which you turn with a special tool called a c spanner....i think the thou is the same and the c spanner will be in the bike tool kit....& might also include an extension bar to slip the handle inside....it fits into the notches on the plastic collar so that you can turn it round and it will click into place on each notch.




In my basic terms then the preload is how much the bike sinks down when you sit on it with all of your kit on and both feet on the pegs.....the bike should sink down as one....not more at the back or front......if it doesn't sink down enough or sinks too much then when you ride it is gonna be that bit closer to bottoming out or topping out as you go over bumps or use the brakes or accelerate......i think the bike should sink down about 30 -35 mm. (Check this, someone had the figures on here recently...im sure 35mm was a good level)...I'm sure I've heard that if you tie a cable tie around the the front forks where the top enters the bottom part, on the shiny bit...enough that it can slide up and down and then get sat on the bike with all your kit and someone holding the bike.....then get off and take a look.....because the forks went down then the cable tie should have been forced up the shiny bit or rather the shiny part was forced through the cable tie.....now you're back off the bike measure how much the cable tie has travelled up the fork....this is how much the bike sunk down.....or your preload.




On the back then you cant do the cable tie thing so you need to measure between 2 points on the vertical axis before sitting on the bike ie centre of the wheel to something like the pillion peg....do this before sitting on the bike and then measure it again when you are sat on the bike and see how much the bike has sunk down......get the c soanner out and turn the collar around either way until you get the preload the same as the front.






Do these preload adjustments on flat ground and remember not to take your initial adjustments with the bike still on the stand...take it off the stand so that your first measurements measure basically how much the bike sinks down by its own weight before you get on it.








Once you've set up the preload then go for a spin and see if it feels any better and then the fun starts on setting the other adjustments called compression and rebound.....the H & S that you described earlier on your fork would be SOFT and HARD.....i don't know about your bike this could be a joint compression/rebound adjuster......or on my Gen2 thou then i have compression hard and soft on the left side fork top and rebound soft and hard on the right side fork top.......ill let the gen 1 thou owners advise you on that one.

[frostman]

Thanks noggythenog

It is complicated but i can see clearly what your saying and the back does go down alot more than 35mm as opposed to the front, i do have the manual but its too technical and your explanation should help me figure out the first stage and thats making sure the preload.I will have a play and see how the bike feels then and let your know

cheers

f

[Falcon 269]

Noggythenog's advice is all good but if you're saying you find the manual too technical then you're going to have a problem putting anything more than the most basic instructions into action.

That said, let's cut to the chase.   At 19st, you're heavier than the rear shock spring was designed to handle.  Yes, it's crazy ...  a 1000cc bike with a good pillion seat and luggage-carrying capacity sold with a spring good for solo riders up to around 14st ... but blame Yamaha's tiny test pilots for that.

So, here's what you can do for now with what you've got.  Set the rear shock spring preload to max (see that accursed manual )  and start saving for a new spring or some other upgrade.  The R6 shock mod is a good option.

Meanwhile, set the shock compression (top adjuster screw) to one click out from max, and set the shock rebound (lower adjuster knob) to 3 or 4 clicks from max.

At the front, fork preload at 2 rings showing.  Rebound damping (top adjuster screw this time) to 4 clicks out from max.  Try 8 - 10 clicks out from max on the fork compression damping (lower screws).

For all the fact that the Gen 1 Fazer has 'fully adjustable' suspension, the reality is that the damping adjustment gives you a discernible range of  'on, off, somewhere-in-the-middle'.  Don't waste your time trying to fine tune things too much because you won't be making much difference with a click or two either way.

You could try pulling the fork legs up through the yokes by 10mm if you feel it's within your skill set as a DIY mechanic but don't try this if you're not sure what you're doing. 

Do a search here on suspension mods to find out the various options open, from budget to wallet-bleeding, but as a minimum get that rear shock spring changed to suit your weight first.

[sadlonelygit]

At 19st I wouldn't be dropping the forks anywhere.
I did send him a pm but either he hasn't read it or doesnt beleive me.
I would imagine he has used up the soft part of the spring just in the sag.
It does sound like he doesn't have much grasp of the technical side of suspension so may be better off going to a professional to have it set up.

[frostman]

At 19st I wouldn't be dropping the forks anywhere.
I did send him a pm but either he hasn't read it or doesnt beleive me.
I would imagine he has used up the soft part of the spring just in the sag.
It does sound like he doesn't have much grasp of the technical side of suspension so may be better off going to a professional to have it set up.

My apologies i am new to the forum and was not aware of a messages feature, i have also just found the notification email in my hotmail junk email so in future i  can make sure i get them. As i said new to bikes and have not got a true grasp of the technical side.

f

[PieEater]

At 19st I wouldn't be dropping the forks anywhere.

Any particular reason why? I'm 23st and have the forks through the yokes by about 14mm, personally I've found that each mod I've done to the bike to put more weight on the front wheel has made a positive difference to the way my bike handles - so as well as lowering the front I've jacked up the back using shorter dog-bones and have my Nitron shock set to it's maximum length. I've tried all combinations of these mods and kept coming back to the fact my bike handles so much better with them all in place.

It does sound like he doesn't have much grasp of the technical side of suspension so may be better off going to a professional to have it set up.

I was going to suggest the same, even if it was to get someone with suspension expertise just to bounce the bike up and down, they can usually suss out whether the damping or preload is out and make some quick adjustments, explain what they've done and send you out on a test ride to see if it's helped.

[sadlonelygit]

[quote author=sadlonelygit link=topic=14036.msg158783#msg158783 date=1405596899]
At 19st I wouldn't be dropping the forks anywhere.

Any particular reason why? I'm 23st and have the forks through the yokes by about 14mm
[/quote]

but i bet (hope) you've had the suspension sorted already, i was talking about standard settings

[frostman]

here is where i am up to  :rolleyes

Following advice of this forum i have come to a few conclusions. Without a doubt it is clear the standard Fzs 1000 suspension is not the best for me, changing / upgrading the suspension is the best chance of making the bike as tip top as you can get it, whether its with an R6 shock, ktech springs or defaulkner. This is something i am going to do but i feel as a novice who is not capable of using the bike to even 30% of its potential then for now until i gain my miles and confidence i will put it on my wish list.

When i say i am not technical i mean i am not Bike technical as their something new to me, but i do hold qualifications in engineering and have a good mechanical mind, understanding the concepts of two wheels and how they make provision for the stresses of weight, braking, accelerating and general riding does take some understanding. With the advice of here it was apparent the suspension for my weight was not right. So with the trusty bike manual, key and screw driver i adjusted spring preload, rebound damping force and compression damping force to one click before max on front and back. Instantly the bike feels more solid when i sit on it and far less spongy. It now lowers equally where as before the back went down more than the front. This is supposed to be a good thing from what i have read.

The problem that i had the week before had shattered my confidence, and i was aware that my imagination could be playing havock with my mind and in reality there was not any problems. The bike felt all week slippy, even the tarmac seal they use when they put the road back together after roadworks seemed to feel slippy. To rid my mind gremlins i decided to check the tyre air pressure again which is something i only did 9 days ago. Back was 40 (i know should be 39 but i am heavy) and front was 25! To lose 11 bar in 9 days is a problem and the tyre is not even going to be looked at as i have ordered a new one. i had read and seen on youtube fazer owners state that even 1 bar down on the front can make the bike feel unstable and mine was 11 bar down.

The keen to ride side of me kicked in though and i wanted to find out what the bike was like on its new settings so it was air in tyre and off out. The bike did not feel slippery once and totally different more in control of the road and far more stable, breaking feels good and so does the acceleration (well that always feels good lol) meaning its not see sawing like it was as much. On acceleration the bike used to sit down and i felt like i was sitting up hill, i spent alot of time on roundabouts as my confidence is shot and wanted to relax with leaning a little more, up and down a few winding country roads and even on the motorway for quite a few miles and i hesitate to say this i think it was the best ride i have had since getting the bike. Yes  i am still a novice no i cant ride like an experienced biker, yes i am slower than an experienced biker. All of this is fine with me, i want to enjoy learning the bike and eventually one day when i need more there is always ivanising lol. At the moment and it may sound sad i just like to be out there. On the motorway i am happy at 70, 6 weeks ago it was happy at 50 its all time and experience i suppose. What i found out last night on the motorway was the acceleration of the thing is staggering and i know i am only tickling the throttle not opening it up fully and only going between 0 and 70 ish (not as much as 80 lol) i think something is broken with me as i want to come of at each junction and rejoin the motorway again just to feel the acceleration lol

Thanks for all your help

F

[Falcon 269]

I advise you against having the fork damping set as firm as you stated above.

The settings I suggested in my post are based on what I know works for heavy riders on the stock suspension. 

At the very least, you should consider backing off the fork compression damping to 8 clicks out from max,  and try 4 clicks out from max on the fork rebound.  Basically, give the suspension the chance to move in response to the road surface.  If it's too rigid, the tyre will tend to skip rather than track the road as it should.

[frostman]

Hi All

Just an update on my suspension riding problems, perhaps all of you know what i have found out and i am teaching grandmother to suck eggs, as i have stated i am a somewhat road biker virgin and same with being a fazer virgin having only had mine 6 months. Changing the suspension settings on my fazer made a great deal of difference the bike felt alot more in tune with me and the road. However since i bought the bike i have felt uncomfortable with it in that it feels like it skips when going over road seems lines etc. Being a bike virgin and talking to non bike virgin i was advised that some skipping as i call it was normal. So on i plod i did have the bike in a local garage over something else and he had a quick look and said it all looked fine to him so on i continued with a hop skip and a jump, i have become very good at avoiding the seems and paintwork on the road.

Anyway took the bike to a garage thats only 100 yards from work they do bodywork so i was just wondering if they could touch up the minor scratches it has, i have never pimped a car but i have already got ordered a beowulf radiator grill and side covers in stainless steel what the hells going on with me, i have washed this bloody bike more times than my past 3 cars.

The mechanic seems a nice guy and races bikes he even suspects he had the correct r6 shock as he used to race them... interesting. As soon as he looked at my bike he said i bet thats misbehaving on the road specially on the seems. I first thought someone had worded him up and he was taking the p**** but no he was genuine. He pointed out my front tyre was completley goosed even thought its new last year according to the receipts, goosed in the way its misshapen and even goes to a point in the centre. The guy said put a new tyre on the bike and it will feel like a new bike, 311 miles later and wow, i thought i was just a slow rider coz i am past learning and should have tamed the midlife crisis but no all along my lack of confidence in myself was actually myself telling me something was not good. As a bike virgin what did i have to compare my knowledge with, now my bike feels solid on the ground and does not fuss what it goes over in terms of seems, paint ect Now after so many months of being despondant i can go out and enjoy the ride more without the worry of the bike sticking to the ground.  oh the tyre was a bridgestone 23 something if anyone was curious.


F

[karlo]

http://www.verkehrshaus.org/motorcycles/48836.php