Snapped exhaust studs and other fun issues

[returning rider]

Well finally had a go at this when my son badgered me into it!

Tried a mig welder, welding nuts onto the thread, it worked for one stud that came out fairly easy. other 5 no joy, the block being a giant heat sink especially on cylinder 2 and 3 struggled to get heat into the stud without melting the nut, moved up to a bigger M8 nut that got one more out, All the rest the weld either sheared off due to lack of penetration or others the welds took but the stud sheared further inside the block.

Tried building up the weld still would not budge.

Resorted to drilling them out. Took the radiator off to get better access, ( lower retaining bolt sheared- solid with corrosion was able to drill out and retap the captive nut)still not great, the drill chuck fouled by the frame so had to get long drills could only get black HSS drills, they just bounced off it even with a good centre dab. Put a 5mm Cobalt drill the smallest diameter that was long enough not to foul, that sliced through it. Drilled it out not 100% centred but good enough, fitted a helicoil and that seems to be solid with new stainless stud.

Ran out of time and need to get some smaller Cobalt drills can only presume the numerous attempts at welding have case hardened the studs, I can think of no other reason why new 3mm HSS drill bits will not bite but just bounce off the surface.

On plus side 3 to go 2 are horrendous access do the frame, oil scavenge pipe and cam chain casting, other 1 looks ok just need to find the time 

He also decided to investigate the loose front indicator, result the fairing is off and down to the inner frame he likes to give me work!

[darrsi]

For anyone having thoughts of dealing with studs, preferably before snapping them, then these simple yet inexpensive tools have got to be worth a go.

https://share.temu.com/ZZ38jDA102A

[Grahamm]

I'd buy from a reputable supplier, not a Chinese knock-off factory selling stuff on Temu...!

[darrsi]

I'd buy from a reputable supplier, not a Chinese knock-off factory selling stuff on Temu...!

Each to their own, but I've been buying some fancy tools from them over the last year, some like these that I never even knew existed, and they've worked just fine, plus my tool kit has expanded in ways I never expected at all.
Unless you have a habit of stripping or removing engine studs, how often are you gonna use these tools? My guess is they are a simple design yet very effective when put to the test.

[returning rider]

For anyone having thoughts of dealing with studs, preferably before snapping them, then these simple yet inexpensive tools have got to be worth a go.

https://share.temu.com/ZZ38jDA102A

I tried this type not from Temu but a draper set i got.

Took one out.

Sheared 2 more in place snapped level with the block.

Could not get in on straight or at all to some studs as the timing chain casing and oil pipe and water pip-es all foul access.

My advice to anyone is if your studs are still there cut off the nuts use a dremel to cut a split in them and open the but up, changing the studs is a world of pain I wish I had never tried.

[darrsi]

For anyone having thoughts of dealing with studs, preferably before snapping them, then these simple yet inexpensive tools have got to be worth a go.

https://share.temu.com/ZZ38jDA102A

I tried this type not from Temu but a draper set i got.

Took one out.

Sheared 2 more in place snapped level with the block.

Could not get in on straight or at all to some studs as the timing chain casing and oil pipe and water pip-es all foul access.

My advice to anyone is if your studs are still there cut off the nuts use a dremel to cut a split in them and open the but up, changing the studs is a world of pain I wish I had never tried.

I hear what you're saying, but my guess would be it is not so much the tool itself that was the problem but the studs you were trying to remove.
These bikes are notoriously bad for having poor quality exhaust studs, the main problem being 6mm rather than at least 8mm, as I have read many a time on the forum. And the older the bikes get, which currently ranges from 21 to 26 years, then due to the nature of the heat they suffer, you would have to be extremely lucky to not have problems when tackling them.
A few years ago all I wanted to do was change the engine exhaust gaskets. I had a day off work coming up so thought I'd buy a set and it would realistically take me less than an hour to do.
WRONG!!!
The very first nut on the nearside stud I attempted to undo broke the stud like cheese. I barely put any pressure on the ratchet at all, it was like rotten damp wood the way it came apart. So that ruined my day straight away.
And a year ago I had a lot of work done on my bike due to unforeseen circumstances and the mechanic had trouble with them too. I'd actually asked him while the engine was out if he could possibly change all of them for new ones but as he'd already done so much work he didn't want to put anymore hours in to keep the bill down, which was fuly understandable.
As i said that was a few years ago and my bike has hit 24 years old now, so a word of caution to anyone attempting work on the area of these studs is that things are getting old now so don't expect everything to be plain sailing, because there's a strong chance that it won't be.  And if you're not mechanically confident just let a garage sort things out because if anything goes wrong they'll have all the equipment necessary to do a much quicker fix, albeit a costly one.

[returning rider]

For anyone having thoughts of dealing with studs, preferably before snapping them, then these simple yet inexpensive tools have got to be worth a go.

https://share.temu.com/ZZ38jDA102A

I tried this type not from Temu but a draper set i got.

Took one out.

Sheared 2 more in place snapped level with the block.

Could not get in on straight or at all to some studs as the timing chain casing and oil pipe and water pip-es all foul access.

My advice to anyone is if your studs are still there cut off the nuts use a dremel to cut a split in them and open the but up, changing the studs is a world of pain I wish I had never tried.

I hear what you're saying, but my guess would be it is not so much the tool itself that was the problem but the studs you were trying to remove.
These bikes are notoriously bad for having poor quality exhaust studs, yhe main problem being 6mm rather than at least 8mm, as I have read many a time on the forum. And the older the bikes get, which currently ranges from 21 to 26 years, then due to the nature of the heat they suffer, you would have to be extremely lucky to not have problems when tackling them.
A few years ago all I wanted to do was change the engine exhaust gaskets. I had a day off work coming up so thought I'd buy a set and it would realistically take me less than an hour to do.
WRONG!!!
The very first nut on the nearside stud I attempted to undo broke like cheese. I barely put any pressure on the ratchet at all, it was like rotten damp wood the way it came apart. So that ruined my day straight away.
And a year ago I had a lot of work done on my bike due to unforeseen circumstances and the mechanic had trouble with them too. I'd actually asked him while the engine was out if he could possibly change all of them for new ones but as he'd already done so much work he didn't want to put anymore hours in to keep the bill down, which was fuly understandable.
As i said that was a few years ago and my bike has hit 24 years old now, so a word of caution to anyone attempting work on the area of these studs is that things are getting old now so don't expect everything to be plain sailing, because there's a strong chance that it it won't.  And if you're not mechanically confident just let a garage sort things out because if anything goes wrong they'll have all the equipment necessary to do a necessary fix, albeit a costly one.

Second this big time be prepared to take the radiator out at very least or front end off to access, but ideally engine out.

As said the studs are very corroded, and will shear before coming on on some no matter how much hear or penetrating spray bi metallic corrosion is extremely powerful.

By hind sight once they were sheared the best option is engine out onto a bench a bench and drilled out.

I made the mistake of taking on a bike with broken studs not realising how big an issue it was. 

Will see if my bodge has worked when I finish all the other jobs and put it back together, coolant definitely needed doing tho was black, have flushed the radiator, once i refit it will flush the engine, change the oil and filter and once i sort the exhaust out see if it fire again. Issue is the downpipes need some attention stainless so cleaned up ok and sound condition but the previous owner and garage had issues with exhaust flanges leaking so they would just keep tightening until they broke the studs. The bolted flanges that pull down onto the spigot are bent they have been pulled in by over tightening the nuts onto the stud. Pain to fix as captive on the downpipes. Also when fitted it does not line up with centre hanger bracket sit too much in the middle of the bike, it was not connected can see why, to pull this will strain the headers at engine side. Need to heat and bend it to pull it back onto shape.

Then just got 
lights 
indicators
forks
rear shock
chain and sprockets
Clean and bleed brakes
repaint the engine and frame 
possibly a front tyre

beginning to wonder if its easier and cost effective to break it and get a better one

[darrsi]

For anyone having thoughts of dealing with studs, preferably before snapping them, then these simple yet inexpensive tools have got to be worth a go.

https://share.temu.com/ZZ38jDA102A

I tried this type not from Temu but a draper set i got.

Took one out.

Sheared 2 more in place snapped level with the block.

Could not get in on straight or at all to some studs as the timing chain casing and oil pipe and water pip-es all foul access.

My advice to anyone is if your studs are still there cut off the nuts use a dremel to cut a split in them and open the but up, changing the studs is a world of pain I wish I had never tried.

I hear what you're saying, but my guess would be it is not so much the tool itself that was the problem but the studs you were trying to remove.
These bikes are notoriously bad for having poor quality exhaust studs, yhe main problem being 6mm rather than at least 8mm, as I have read many a time on the forum. And the older the bikes get, which currently ranges from 21 to 26 years, then due to the nature of the heat they suffer, you would have to be extremely lucky to not have problems when tackling them.
A few years ago all I wanted to do was change the engine exhaust gaskets. I had a day off work coming up so thought I'd buy a set and it would realistically take me less than an hour to do.
WRONG!!!
The very first nut on the nearside stud I attempted to undo broke like cheese. I barely put any pressure on the ratchet at all, it was like rotten damp wood the way it came apart. So that ruined my day straight away.
And a year ago I had a lot of work done on my bike due to unforeseen circumstances and the mechanic had trouble with them too. I'd actually asked him while the engine was out if he could possibly change all of them for new ones but as he'd already done so much work he didn't want to put anymore hours in to keep the bill down, which was fuly understandable.
As i said that was a few years ago and my bike has hit 24 years old now, so a word of caution to anyone attempting work on the area of these studs is that things are getting old now so don't expect everything to be plain sailing, because there's a strong chance that it it won't.  And if you're not mechanically confident just let a garage sort things out because if anything goes wrong they'll have all the equipment necessary to do a necessary fix, albeit a costly one.

Second this big time be prepared to take the radiator out at very least or front end off to access, but ideally engine out.

As said the studs are very corroded, and will shear before coming on on some no matter how much hear or penetrating spray bi metallic corrosion is extremely powerful.

By hind sight once they were sheared the best option is engine out onto a bench a bench and drilled out.

I made the mistake of taking on a bike with broken studs not realising how big an issue it was. 

Will see if my bodge has worked when I finish all the other jobs and put it back together, coolant definitely needed doing tho was black, have flushed the radiator, once i refit it will flush the engine, change the oil and filter and once i sort the exhaust out see if it fire again. Issue is the downpipes need some attention stainless so cleaned up ok and sound condition but the previous owner and garage had issues with exhaust flanges leaking so they would just keep tightening until they broke the studs. The bolted flanges that pull down onto the spigot are bent they have been pulled in by over tightening the nuts onto the stud. Pain to fix as captive on the downpipes. Also when fitted it does not line up with centre hanger bracket sit too much in the middle of the bike, it was not connected can see why, to pull this will strain the headers at engine side. Need to heat and bend it to pull it back onto shape.

Then just got 
lights 
indicators
forks
rear shock
chain and sprockets
Clean and bleed brakes
repaint the engine and frame 
possibly a front tyre

beginning to wonder if its easier and cost effective to break it and get a better one

They really are great bikes, but like anything need a bit of TLC here and there all the time to keep it all good for as long as possible. When things get ignored then problems will arise without a doubt, maybe not short term but certainly long term.
I try and do as much as I can as far as servicing is concerned but if I don't feel up to it I'll point it in the direction of someone who can help me properly.
The fact that there are so many of these bikes still around after 21+ years speaks volumes in itself at how good they are. But like everything age will get the better of them if not looked after properly.

Just make a note or diary somewhere (I use an email I add to then resend it to myself) that describes all work you've done, with the date and mileage, costs, etc, and it can make things much easier when it comes to knowing what needs to be sorted out next.

[fazersharp]

There are a lot of posts on here if you search "studs"
Just looked back to check when I last took my nuts off and it was 2015  seems like a couple of years ago, maybe I should re-do the copper slip again.
Here is my post from 2015. I was lucky but I do not ride in the wet which must be a big factor. But the bike had done 3 winters before I brought it. Its 26 years old now. I still have the origional down pipes on - all be it with some putty repair in the collector for pin holes

I soaked mine in a product called kroil i used a small syringe and blunt needle to get right in and behind the clamp, did it after a ride when it was warm/hot and did it for 4 months.

Yes like you I have no reason to do it yet but my downpipes wont last forever and I will have to do it one day, and the longer its left the worse it will be.
I wasnt actually going to try and take them off - just routinely soak them but I couldnt resist the urge any longer and had a go, and SUCCESS ! they came off all ok.
I did it with the engine hot and with a 1/4 inch socket set I think the key is to not use anything bigger so not to be able to use too much force, you will need a 3 inch extension bar for one of the nuts.
Copper slipped and put the same nuts back on, I dont think you need to redo it every year though, maybe i was lucky because I dont do wet riding in the 14 years i have had the bike and so they weren't that bad.
But it is a weight off my shoulders knowing that I do not have that time bomb ticking away.
I think along with checking the front sprocket nut, this should be one of the things to check when buying another fazer.   

[returning rider]

I have refitted mine with stainless studs and nuts that outlive me, if they had spent a little more at build it might have different. likewise the box eye headlight is a farce that few quid could have overcome, its a shame as the rest of the bike is clearly very well made and so many still about in good working order is a real testament to just how good the bike both in build quality but in the fact that owners think so much of them, I know for me it ticks all the boxes nice engine relaxed ridding position and non showy like a sports bike.

[returning rider]

Progress Update :

Now have 8 shiny new exhaust studs fitted, not pretty but all lines up and clamps the header fine.

Had to throw the header pipes and old end can on to do an oil change and dropped the coolant as well, thought I had over filled but checking the next day was spot on the middle.

Both the oil and coolant were jet black, had the radiator off so flushed all the crap put of that refitted and put the garden hose in the inlet and flushed it through a few times until it ran clear refilled with new coolant all seems fine

Oil I might redo once I have got the engine ran a few more hours as the sight glass while not black is darker than when i filled it already, must be collecting all the crap gathered in it over the years.

I painted all the areas behind the radiator, and the fairing is still off touched up the surface rust where i seen any, repainted the rusty rad guard, shoved some Redex fuel cleaner in the tank, had a look, no sign of rust or anything nasty.

Going to refit the headers properly now i know they fit ok, I have new copper crush washer/ gaskets that came with the stud kit.

The previous owner had issues with the headers blowing at the seal to the block he said the nuts kept coming loose and he kept tightening until he sheared the studs and necked the others then he sold it !

Given the history do I just refit with the copper or go belt n braces and use exhaust paste as well? or bed the copper gaskets in coppaslip?

I rather not have to take the headers off again, I think part of the issue was the rear support under the centre of the bike was not fitted so all the weight was between the end can and the headers. The headers are slightly out so will make up a spacer to bolt it into the rubber mount on the frame bringing it slightly closer without stressing the joints on the head.

Was considering getting some additional stainless nuts to act as lock nuts and cover some of the exposed thread.

I have stainless link pipe and option of cans to refit.

Got the engine running, it went fairly easy, rough as tho! got a lot better but still a bit lumpy at idle and might be a back fire when coming off a rev, hard to tell as the headers are leaking and throwing off all kinda sounds and heat. 

Got much better when warm seems to rev quick enough idle almost settles small fluctuation.

Not over worried just now as still have to do the air filter and worth giving the carbs a good blast with brake cleaner when i have the airbox lid off? going by rest of the bike expect the air filter to be manky. Still to change the plugs as well and check the HT leads but facts it fired easy and revs makes me think its got an ok sprk?

Am I fooling myself or a bike that not run for 8 months going to need the carbs off and cleaned? plus no guarantee they were good when I bought it as clear little or no care had been taken with it.

Chain has rusted up as well will need to look at that when i have time

[darrsi]

Progress Update :

Now have 8 shiny new exhaust studs fitted, not pretty but all lines up and clamps the header fine.

Had to throw the header pips and old end can on to do an oil change and dropped the coolant as well, thought I had over filled but checking the next day was spot on the middle.

Both the oil and coolant were jet black, had the radiator off so flushed all the crap put of that refitted and out the garden hose in the inlet and flushed it through a few times until it ran clear refilled with new coolant all seems fine

Oil I might redo once I have got the engine ran a hours as the sight glass while not black is darker than when i filled it already, must be collecting all the crap gathered in it over the years.

I painted all the areas behind the radiator and the fairing is still off so touched up the surface rust where i seen any, repainted the rusty rad guard, shoved some Redex fuel cleaner in the tank, had a look, no sign of rust or anything nasty.

Going to refit the headers now i know they fit ok, I have new copper crush washer/ gaskets that came with the stud kit.

The previous owner had issues with the headers blowing at the seal to the block he said the nuts kept coming loose and he kept tightening until he sheared the studs and necked the others then he sold it !

Given the history do I just refit with the copper or go belt n braces and use exhaust paste as well? or bed the copper gaskets in coppaslip?

I rather not have to take the headers off again, I think part of the issue was the rear support under the centre of the bike was not fitted so all the weight was between the end can and the headers. The headers are slightly out so will make up a spacer to bolt it into the rubber mount on the frame bringing it slightly closer without stressing the joints on the head.

I have stainless link pipe and option of cans to refit.

Got the engine running, it went fairly easy, rough as tho! got a lot better but still a bit lumpy at idle and might be a back fire when coming off a rev, hard to tell as the headers are leaking and throwing off all kinda sounds and heat. Got much better when warm seems to rev quick enough idle almost settles small fluctuation.

Not over worried just now as still have to do the air filter and worth giving the carbs a good blast with brake cleaner when i have the airbox lid off? going by rest of the bike expect the air filter to be manky.

Am I fooling myself or a bike that nor run for 8 months going to need the carbs off and cleaned? plus no guarantee they were good when I bought it as clear little or no care had been taken with it.

Chain has rusted up as well will need to look at that when i have time

I can answer that tomorrow, as I'm taking my bike for an MOT after 1 year (today) of not riding it due to injury.
As usual not everyone will agree, but I would get a K&N air filter, they just make the engine breathe more freely.

[returning rider]

Progress Update :

Now have 8 shiny new exhaust studs fitted, not pretty but all lines up and clamps the header fine.

Had to throw the header pips and old end can on to do an oil change and dropped the coolant as well, thought I had over filled but checking the next day was spot on the middle.

Both the oil and coolant were jet black, had the radiator off so flushed all the crap put of that refitted and out the garden hose in the inlet and flushed it through a few times until it ran clear refilled with new coolant all seems fine

Oil I might redo once I have got the engine ran a hours as the sight glass while not black is darker than when i filled it already, must be collecting all the crap gathered in it over the years.

I painted all the areas behind the radiator and the fairing is still off so touched up the surface rust where i seen any, repainted the rusty rad guard, shoved some Redex fuel cleaner in the tank, had a look, no sign of rust or anything nasty.

Going to refit the headers now i know they fit ok, I have new copper crush washer/ gaskets that came with the stud kit.

The previous owner had issues with the headers blowing at the seal to the block he said the nuts kept coming loose and he kept tightening until he sheared the studs and necked the others then he sold it !

Given the history do I just refit with the copper or go belt n braces and use exhaust paste as well? or bed the copper gaskets in coppaslip?

I rather not have to take the headers off again, I think part of the issue was the rear support under the centre of the bike was not fitted so all the weight was between the end can and the headers. The headers are slightly out so will make up a spacer to bolt it into the rubber mount on the frame bringing it slightly closer without stressing the joints on the head.

I have stainless link pipe and option of cans to refit.

Got the engine running, it went fairly easy, rough as tho! got a lot better but still a bit lumpy at idle and might be a back fire when coming off a rev, hard to tell as the headers are leaking and throwing off all kinda sounds and heat. Got much better when warm seems to rev quick enough idle almost settles small fluctuation.

Not over worried just now as still have to do the air filter and worth giving the carbs a good blast with brake cleaner when i have the airbox lid off? going by rest of the bike expect the air filter to be manky.

Am I fooling myself or a bike that nor run for 8 months going to need the carbs off and cleaned? plus no guarantee they were good when I bought it as clear little or no care had been taken with it.

Chain has rusted up as well will need to look at that when i have time

I can answer that tomorrow, as I'm taking my bike for an MOT after 1 year (today) of not riding it due to injury.
As usual not everyone will agree, but I would get a K&N air filter, they just make the engine breathe more freely.

Cheers yes i took the advice and did not fit the HiFlo filter i got in the service kit I was going to try a Pipercross filter as I have used them on cars and find they work just as well as K&N and half the price. Plus if i need a new chain need to save the pennies!

[Trebus]

Good job getting the studs sorted, nobody’s favourite job for sure!

[returning rider]

Its not pretty they are not straight and a couple i shifted 90 degree where the casting has blanks as much easier than trying to drill the studs out that had become case hardened with welding

[Trebus]

Function over form