High beam switch

[darrsi]

:agree

Sounds like a chaffed wire somewhere.

So, after changing the left switch housing the problem still remained, but after a bit of jiggery pokery you were right, there was what looks like a chafed cable but i'm not exactly sure why because there was nothing actually near it to damage it.
It was one of the cables going into the headlight plug. That's now been soldered and heat shrinked so that's one issue out of the way.


After mentioning to my mate about the battery going flat if i ever use the headlight he did a quick check on the electrical circuit.


The volts were fine with the engine running, showing around the 14.5v mark.


But when he checked the amps it wasn't so good.
With all gadgets and lights off it was reading 6amps @ 5000rpm.
Problem is the manual says it should be 18 amps @ 5000rpm.
Then as you can imagine once i started turning lights on it just kept dropping.  In fact i should've tried it with the heated grips on as well.
With all lights on, including high beam, it went down to a reading as low as 1.5 amps.


So obviously something ain't right, but does anyone know exactly what the problem is?
I just don't do electrics, but first thoughts is an alternator issue perhaps?

[Graham53]

Could it be the battery , dead cell would give good volts but low amps ??

[darrsi]

Could it be the battery , dead cell would give good volts but low amps ??

Only a few months old.

[unfazed]

The volts were fine with the engine running, showing around the 14.5v mark. 14v to 14.8v would be acceptable with 14.4 being absolutely correct

With all gadgets and lights off it was reading 6amps @ 5000rpm. Most likely because was the battery was partial charged and the regulator was doing its job.

Problem is the manual says it should be 18 amps @ 5000rpm This is the max rating and would not normally be seen under normal operation

Then as you can imagine once i started turning lights on it just kept dropping.  In fact i should've tried it with the heated grips on as well.
With all lights on, including high beam, it went down to a reading as low as 1.5 amps.
Sounds more like a dodgy regulator when under load.

The regulator is the first thing I would change based on the above.

You can test the Generator by checking the AC voltage output of the Generator at the connector between the regulator and Generator.
This should rise from around 20 VAC to 90V plus as the engine revs rise. you will need to perform the test 3 times on the white generator wires across 2 of each of the 3 wires in turn to check all 3 coils of the Generator.

The headlight mod was to bring on the unused dim of the H4 bulb and should have a wire from the H4 bulb coming from the electrical box under the tank and joined to a green wire which comes from the Hi/lo switch. Many were done incorrectly and the H4 dim Stayed on when the H4 Main beam was switched on. This caused poor charging and eventually would burn out the Hi/Lo beam switch or the right side lights on switch.

[darrsi]

The volts were fine with the engine running, showing around the 14.5v mark. 14v to 14.8v would be acceptable with 14.4 being absolutely correct

With all gadgets and lights off it was reading 6amps @ 5000rpm. Most likely because was the battery was partial charged and the regulator was doing its job.

Problem is the manual says it should be 18 amps @ 5000rpm This is the max rating and would not normally be seen under normal operation

Then as you can imagine once i started turning lights on it just kept dropping.  In fact i should've tried it with the heated grips on as well.
With all lights on, including high beam, it went down to a reading as low as 1.5 amps.
Sounds more like a dodgy regulator when under load.

The regulator is the first thing I would change based on the above.

You can test the Generator by checking the AC voltage output of the Generator at the connector between the regulator and Generator.
This should rise from around 20 VAC to 90V plus as the engine revs rise. you will need to perform the test 3 times on the white generator wires across 2 of each of the 3 wires in turn to check all 3 coils of the Generator.

The headlight mod was to bring on the unused dim of the H4 bulb and should have a wire from the H4 bulb coming from the electrical box under the tank and joined to a green wire which comes from the Hi/lo switch. Many were done incorrectly and the H4 dim Stayed on when the H4 Main beam was switched on. This caused poor charging and eventually would burn out the Hi/Lo beam switch or the right side lights on switch.

The regulator was changed for a brand new one a few months back, along with the battery.

[unfazed]

Just because something is new does not mean it cannot fail.
Was it a genuine Yamaha rectifier/regulator or a spurious part?

Where did you buy it, many Chinese copies being passed off as genuine Shindengen units and are crap

[Graham53]

Could it be that the wire that you found had been chafing wasn't the only one and that somewhere else on the circuit there's also a shorting wire ?? Or it's something on that circuit ,the problem started with the high beam If the output measured was 14.5 volts that would that suggest that the alternator doing its job and you've replaced the battery and reg/rec and if I've understood correctly that the only electrical problem you've had is the high beam then maybe go back to that

[darrsi]

Just because something is new does not mean it cannot fail.
Was it a genuine Yamaha rectifier/regulator or a spurious part?

Where did you buy it, many Chinese copies being passed off as genuine Shindengen units and are crap

My mate said the same.
Is there a way of testing one off the bike, as i still have the one i took off?
I only replaced it to eliminate it from my other starting issue which turned out to be moisture in the fuel tank, which i've now got sorted.

[darrsi]

Could it be that the wire that you found had been chafing wasn't the only one and that somewhere else on the circuit there's also a shorting wire ?? Or it's something on that circuit ,the problem started with the high beam If the output measured was 14.5 volts that would that suggest that the alternator doing its job and you've replaced the battery and reg/rec and if I've understood correctly that the only electrical problem you've had is the high beam then maybe go back to that

The damaged wire was was about 5mm from the headlight push on socket.
Bit baffled as there's nothing near it to rub on it?

[darrsi]

Okay, my bad, i just got told that it was being hit by other wires.
It's properly heat shrinked now though.

[crickleymal]

You say the current went down to 1.5amps. What current? If it's the current into the battery then I'm not surprised it falls as things get switched on because the regulator is sending power to them as well as the battery. So long as it is still charging the battery I wouldn't worry. If it went to -1.5 A then I'd worry.
If you've got both headlights on and the heated grips you've got to be drawing 12 amps or more out of the regulator and it's still managing to charge the battery..........

[unfazed]

[quote author=unfazed link=topic=21701.msg251733#msg251733 date=1486236876]
Just because something is new does not mean it cannot fail.
Was it a genuine Yamaha rectifier/regulator or a spurious part?

Where did you buy it, many Chinese copies being passed off as genuine Shindengen units and are crap

My mate said the same.
Is there a way of testing one off the bike, as i still have the one i took off?
I only replaced it to eliminate it from my other starting issue which turned out to be moisture in the fuel tank, which i've now got sorted.
[/quote]

Not really, as you would need  something to act as a Generator to supply adjustable 3 phase AC.
Simply way to check even though it is not fool proof, is turn on the ignition, put a meter across the battery and start the engine. Voltmeter will drop to around 10.5 to 11volts. Rev it to about 4-5000 check the reading on the meter, the voltage should start rising, now switch on the headlights, battery voltage will drop and start to rise again. If it fails this you will need to check the output of the Generator as explained in my earlier post.
However most Generators and Rectifier/Regulators fail when hot and it is better to this check after a trip.

Why not replace the regulator/rectifier with the old one and see how it goes.

I found that in the winter time when I go to work the short way in traffic most of the time, I would have to give the battery a boost from the optimate every 6 to 8 weeks, as it is never gets completely fully charged due to insufficient time above the 5000 revs mark

[darrsi]

[quote author=darrsi link=topic=21701.msg251747#msg251747 date=1486241527]
[quote author=unfazed link=topic=21701.msg251733#msg251733 date=1486236876]
Just because something is new does not mean it cannot fail.
Was it a genuine Yamaha rectifier/regulator or a spurious part?

Where did you buy it, many Chinese copies being passed off as genuine Shindengen units and are crap

My mate said the same.
Is there a way of testing one off the bike, as i still have the one i took off?
I only replaced it to eliminate it from my other starting issue which turned out to be moisture in the fuel tank, which i've now got sorted.
[/quote]

Not really, as you would need  something to act as a Generator to supply adjustable 3 phase AC.
Simply way to check even though it is not fool proof, is turn on the ignition, put a meter across the battery and start the engine. Voltmeter will drop to around 10.5 to 11volts. Rev it to about 4-5000 check the reading on the meter, the voltage should start rising, now switch on the headlights, battery voltage will drop and start to rise again. If it fails this you will need to check the output of the Generator as explained in my earlier post.
However most Generators and Rectifier/Regulators fail when hot and it is better to this check after a trip.

Why not replace the regulator/rectifier with the old one and see how it goes.

I found that in the winter time when I go to work the short way in traffic most of the time, I would have to give the battery a boost from the optimate every 6 to 8 weeks, as it is never gets completely fully charged due to insufficient time above the 5000 revs mark
[/quote]


Ok mate, that's certainly an option, thanks for the good info.

[darrsi]

You say the current went down to 1.5amps. What current? If it's the current into the battery then I'm not surprised it falls as things get switched on because the regulator is sending power to them as well as the battery. So long as it is still charging the battery I wouldn't worry. If it went to -1.5 A then I'd worry.
If you've got both headlights on and the heated grips you've got to be drawing 12 amps or more out of the regulator and it's still managing to charge the battery..........

Okey doke, i'll keep an eye on it anyway when i'm back on it on Monday.
It's starting okay now anyway since i put booze through the tank to rid the system of any moisture.

[darrsi]

S'pose i could always go to and from work using only 1st gear, that'll keep the revs up.  :lol

[Graham53]

[quote author=Graham53 link=topic=21701.msg251734#msg251734 date=1486237330]
Could it be that the wire that you found had been chafing wasn't the only one and that somewhere else on the circuit there's also a shorting wire ?? Or it's something on that circuit ,the problem started with the high beam If the output measured was 14.5 volts that would that suggest that the alternator doing its job and you've replaced the battery and reg/rec and if I've understood correctly that the only electrical problem you've had is the high beam then maybe go back to that

The damaged wire was was about 5mm from the headlight push on socket.
Bit baffled as there's nothing near it to rub on it?
[/quote]
Sorry what I meant was somewhere on the whole full beam circuit , I mean it's not just a wire from the switch to the bulb, could there have been 2 faults on the circuit and you've found 1 hence the problem still exists ,
Ockhams fazer theory ?

[darrsi]

[quote author=darrsi link=topic=21701.msg251749#msg251749 date=1486241671]
[quote author=Graham53 link=topic=21701.msg251734#msg251734 date=1486237330]
Could it be that the wire that you found had been chafing wasn't the only one and that somewhere else on the circuit there's also a shorting wire ?? Or it's something on that circuit ,the problem started with the high beam If the output measured was 14.5 volts that would that suggest that the alternator doing its job and you've replaced the battery and reg/rec and if I've understood correctly that the only electrical problem you've had is the high beam then maybe go back to that

The damaged wire was was about 5mm from the headlight push on socket.
Bit baffled as there's nothing near it to rub on it?
[/quote]
Sorry what I meant was somewhere on the whole full beam circuit , I mean it's not just a wire from the switch to the bulb, could there have been 2 faults on the circuit and you've found 1 hence the problem still exists ,
Ockhams fazer theory ?
[/quote]


Only way i can really test it is by taking it for a spin with the headlight on full beam.
Not really desirable because if it's still wrong the batery will literally be flat once the key is turned off.
The wire that was fixed today could very possibly have been goosed from years ago without me knowing about it.
When i bought the bike it was in a bit of a sorry state and had blatantly been dropped on the right side as the poor repairs to the fairing were quite apparent.
I've slowly repaired things over time, but as i have no real need to use the high beam, other than the odd pass light, i've kind of worked round it.
The wire found today was weird 'cos when not connected the high beam dash light came on, but once resoldered it worked properly again when needed.