It's the only thing I don't like about Fazers and similar. You can't get your weight over the front for fast cornering, to get the front wheel properly "planted". Well, a focced arm means I can't use those sorts of bars anyway, but when I get a hustle on, it's the one thing that annoys me about an upright riding position.
The clip-on style goes back a long way Noggy. On the original 50s cafe racers it was the way to go. In the 70s and early 80s, folk used to fit Ace bars, clip-ons, and Jota bars were popular for their adjustability (from the Laverda Jota).
The manufacturers built little other than sports bikes after the first GSXRs hit the streets - they were designed using things learned from race bikes, and thank God that period is over; there was just race replica after race replica all through the 90s :z Don't get me wrong, these were the flagship models where technology was developed, but at least nowadays we have some variety.
Beaten to it by Mr. limax, so there's a bit more detail for you.
Evening nick.....you've got an R6 shock on your thou, this must help to put a bit more weight on the front, stiffer spring and all that, have you ever had the standard shock on it to compare ?
I dont like the poxy flat bar things on my FZ1 and id rather have proper renthals with a bit of an upwards rise.....not risers, i mean the bars themslves.
These flat bars are neither one or the other as they dont seem to give proper leverage as wide bars should because of the position of them yet neither do they allow for the crouch.
I have to force myself into a crouch with them & although i didnt quite click the reason why (i thought it just made a favourable bend in my elbow for cornering) when i do force the crouch i notice i can corner really well so it all makes sense now.......it just is t natural enough to sustain on my bike yet i can see that some bikes are designed so that you are always in the crouch whether you like it or not....although why the foc they have to have these mahoosive fuel tanks that hold nothing yet stop the crouch???
Easiest way to go fast........don't buy a blue bike
Paul, Luke dropped the bike on the forks by 10mm at the same time he fitted the shock, so not sure which made more difference, but still find myself trying to pull myself over the front to no avail. An upright riding position just isn't the same thing as a full-on sports riding position, but that's what I'm stuck with. S'okay though, I can live with it - comfort is more important to me these days, as I'm sure many on here understand Just illustrating to Noggy what that riding position is about.
Yeh, understand that nick, iam not getting any younger, pushing 40, and comfort is no1 ...but every now and again I want to push things along a bit, little bit of a twisty road ahead , bit more throttle and haul the heavy thou about a bit.ive got an R6 shock waiting to go on and I will try dropping the forks, its got to make these bike better at everything, be interesting to see what difference it makes...........anyway back to topic , clipons dont clipon.......they bolt on ..........
Noggy, a lot of the space under the big fuel tanks on sports bikes is often largely taken up by the airbox. The fuel is generally held low down for weight distribution/centre of gravity reasons (although you can go too low with C of G on bikes - it's more a race car thing really, as the 500 GP boys found out when the designers of some of those consulted with car people and it focced the handling right up.
Paul, dropping the bike on the forks definitely quickens the steering a bit, and without much loss in stability - well, not till around max chat anyway :evil The shock just makes it all so much better with handling the bumpy bits without the whole plot getting completely out of shape, everything more settled and controlled - much, much better. Well worth it.
Oh dear, have we hijacked Noggy's thread? What a shame :lol
24-01-15, 09:53 PM (This post was last modified: 24-01-15, 09:54 PM by noggythenog.)
I dropped my yolks & scraped my bellypan.........& raised them back again :lol
So a lighter bike or a smaller lighter bike........it can counter the ill effects of not having "bolt ons" then can it because the comparative weight of the rider & the bike means that it is more planted at the front on corners without fancy bolt ons can it?
But as a bike gets heavier & carries more weight into a corner then it becomes more important for the rider to be heavier to componsate because you want that corner weight going down & not forward & into a hedge & unless you're on the pies like me then crouching or bolt ons are the way of adding weight......is that correct???
Easiest way to go fast........don't buy a blue bike
If we've established clip ons are for sports bikes to get weight over the front wheel to give better handling an aerodynamics for track / sport use, I have a new question.
Who the foc decided to fit them as standard to the Suzuki GS500e? First thing I got rid of when my dad gave me his old project bike. That's like fitting an F1 rear wing to a Citroen Saxo
As I've said before - a lot of sport touring bikes have them as well because they're more comfortable over distance - you can get tucked down more behind the fairing, and you get a much better balance between your feet, and ass/back -the wind lifts you up a bit so there's no weight on your wrists!
Personal preference - I prefer the riding position of sports bikes, find it comfier than upright bikes. Also find it easier to ride quickly with them. That said, for dickabout riding flat bars have their benefits - my dad's FZ1 pulled bloody brilliant wheelies with that engine and you being sat so far back and up!
(25-01-15, 08:50 PM)nick crisp link Wrote: [quote author=BIG MAC link=topic=15799.msg181303#msg181303 date=1422206008]
If I recall Eddie Lawson managed fine without
Seem to remember he made good use of them on the YZRs
[/quote]
And on his Z 1000 !
The American Superbike class race bikes in the late 70's/early 80's didn't have clip on's and iirc messers Cooley, Cooley, Spencer, Lawson, Rainey and co didn't have any problems making them go round corners quickly :-)
(27-01-15, 06:51 AM)Millietant link Wrote: [quote author=nick crisp link=topic=15799.msg181319#msg181319 date=1422215418]
[quote author=BIG MAC link=topic=15799.msg181303#msg181303 date=1422206008]
If I recall Eddie Lawson managed fine without
Seem to remember he made good use of them on the YZRs
[/quote]
And on his Z 1000 !
The American Superbike class race bikes in the late 70's/early 80's didn't have clip on's and iirc messers Cooley, Cooley, Spencer, Lawson, Rainey and co didn't have any problems making them go round corners quickly :-)
[/quote]
Spencer, Lawson et al came from dirt tracking, with "normal" handlebars, where drifting was the technique needed. They adapted that style first to the superbikes:
and then to the GP 500s. But if straight bars are so good for speed, why does no one use them in MotoGP, road racing, BSB, WSB etc? Just because talented riders can manage with one thing, it doesn't mean they can't do better with something different.
Just illustrating to Noggy what that riding position is about.
then can it because the comparative weight of the rider & the bike means that it is more planted at the front on corners without fancy bolt ons can it?
![[Image: Spencerdriftsit_zpsf84ea6ad.jpg]](http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/nicknicklxs/media/Spencerdriftsit_zpsf84ea6ad.jpg.html)