Oil change - will this cause issues?

[PieEater]

Motul 7100 is Ester based 100% synthetic (no mineral oil) so would be a good choice - https://www.motul.com/gb/en/products/7100-4t-10w40--2

[Slaninar]

Affordability? At that particular time in my life, money was non-existent. To the point I was using 2nd hand tyres on the GS650 I was using at the time (removed from Police BMW's with 5mm + tread left), in order to keep riding to be able to get to work savings had to be made. You obviously did not read the rest of the post, with regards to the lack of issues based on the experiences gained whilst not spending money, which I did not have at the time.
To really wind you up, I semi - retired that particular machine in 2002 with around 65,000 miles on the clock - most of which had been done with car grade 20W50. As I cannot leave things alone, I have stripped the engine to find the internals in very good condition for a machine built in the 1980's. It will be going back together as a resto project and I will be putting whatever oil I choose in it, as it is my choice, based on my experiences and my skills as a qualified aircraft piston engine engineer. (And that qualification and experience covers Radials, Rotarys, Flat 4's, 6's & 8's, Inverted in-lines, V's, Air & liquid cooled, Wankel rotarys, in both 2 stroke and 4 stroke styles!)
I will more than likely, do as the OP asked, as I can now due to being in a better place, put a poor quality oil in and use it as a "flush". It is a good idea. It is unlikely to harm anything unless it is full of the friction modifiers which have been mentioned in earlier responses. :lol

I've lived most of my life in a country with an average monthly pay of under 400 euros (most of the time below that number), and still find it a bad economy to spare money on oil. We're talking about 10 euro price difference per oil change (unless prices in UK differ by a lot). I also don't see a point in saving some money per oil change, then doing oil changes more often. For all I know (not an engine engineer though), changing oil more often than specified does nothing to protect the engine better, unless it is a really bad quality oil - even then, the engine is better protected with a god quality oil, changed per manufacturer's recommendations for oil change intervals.

As for engine wear and protection, I doubt that car oil does as good job as a good quality fully synthetic motor bike specific oil. Again - at really minimal savings.

My oil of choice is Motul 7100, 10w40 grade, and so far my Fazer has only about 70.000 kilometers and no noticeable/measurable oil consumption between 6 to 10 k km oil changes (depending on mileage).

Until I see a parallel test of two engines run on a car and motorcycle specific oil, I'd rather not risk it.

[PaulSmith]

...
Until I see a parallel test of two engines run on a car and motorcycle specific oil, I'd rather not risk it.

Until I see a parallel test showing one worse then the other, I don't see a risk.

[Slaninar]

[quote author=Slaninar link=topic=23009.msg265783#msg265783 date=1502215739]
...
Until I see a parallel test of two engines run on a car and motorcycle specific oil, I'd rather not risk it.

Until I see a parallel test showing one worse then the other, I don't see a risk.
[/quote]

I understand your point. Also, your vast experience with trouble free use of car oil does sound encouraging. However, for what research I could find (might sound like a digression, but I'll get to the point), synthetic oil is superior to mineral/semi synth oil in terms of high temp stability, low temp flow and engine wear protection. Price difference between good quality fully synth car and motorcycle oil is very small (at least in my country) - of course, most synthetic car oils can't be used with a (motorcycle's) wet clutch. So it boils down to - motorcycle specific fully synth vs mineral oil (price difference between car and motorcycle mineral oils aren't that big either, though bigger than between the synth ones).

It is just the matter of whether the benefits do make a difference in say a 200.000 km long motorcycle engine lifetime, after which probably most other parts will be shot and a new(er) bike will be bought. One should also take prolonged service interval that fully synth oils provide into consideration - since it ends up in less oil changes (less hassle), with similar amount of money spent on oil.

Do you have experience with disassembling similar engines after numerous oil changes - are the ones run with synthetic oils different to the ones run on mineral oil in terms of wear and dirt deposits?

[PaulSmith]

I think any experienced mechanic will tell you that they can not tell what oil is, or has been in an engine, but they can usually tell you if it has been changed frequently or or not.

Put simply, if you let the oil wear out, it will not protect you and damage will occur. Quality oil will wear out slower then cheap oil, but if you  change the oil before it wears out, then you stay protected so it doesn't matter which you use. If you want to be able to change less frequently, then use quality oil.

[Slaninar]

I think any experienced mechanic will tell you that they can not tell what oil is, or has been in an engine, but they can usually tell you if it has been changed frequently or or not.

Put simply, if you let the oil wear out, it will not protect you and damage will occur. Quality oil will wear out slower then cheap oil, but if you  change the oil before it wears out, then you stay protected so it doesn't matter which you use. If you want to be able to change less frequently, then use quality oil.

For all I know, changing oil too often is also harmful - not as much as changing too late, but far from optimal.

Aren't fully synthetic oils less likely to cause sludge build up inside the engine?

[VNA]

Affordability? At that particular time in my life, money was non-existent.

We're talking about 10 euro price difference per oil change (unless prices in UK differ by a lot).

I remember those days too.  As a second year SSEB apprentice I was chuffed to bits to get my hands on my old boys Opel Record 2.0  My old boy wasn’t one for wasting money on cars, and in fact the old Opel had been making him money on travelling expenses as he continued to refuse to accept a company car.  So it was pretty well worn by the time I got my hands on it.  It had 120,000 on the clock, though that had been faulty in the past so it was more like 140 or 150k – a lot of miles for a car in them days.  It wasn’t long before the old thing wasn’t too keen on starting.  The starting routine ended up something like this – get the air box off, free of the carb flaps, prime the carb with petrol, wack the starter motor a few times with a solid steel bar, place car in gear and rock backwards and forwards a few times (dunno if that really helped but it seemed to), put the air box back on, get in the car, turn the key and hope for the best.  It was frequently bump started and it was always a good idea to park facing down hill.
The battery was pretty much done and eventually gave up the ghost.  I didn’t have money for a new one, so I bump started the car, drove it to work, got the battery out and took it to the chemistry department at the Power Station I worked at.  There I emptied out the battery acid and then it was filled with fresh strong acid.  That got me another two months out of the battery.  Every penny counted.
Another feature of that car was it kept running after you turned it off.  Presumably cos of the worn out carb combined with lots of hot carbon deposits, at times it would stutter away for a minute or two before grinding to a halt.  The gear box eventually was down to 1[sup]st[/sup],2[sup]nd[/sup] and 4[sup]th[/sup], and now and again you got some severe valve clatter as the hydraulic tappets were done.  It only did 20mpg, but I got some cash from giving folks lifts so that paid for the petrol at 1.50 a gallon.
Oil change?  Castrol GTX borrowed from the old boy’s garage.  Anyway, MOT time came and that killed it off, so had to cycle to and from work till I got enough pennies together to buy myself something else. 
The apprentices we have today, I don’t think they know what skint is, they are all driving new cars on PCP.  Back then we all serviced our own cars and fixed anything that went wrong (or ignored it if we could), today they go for a service at the main dealer – all part of the package.
So yeah I know where Mike’s coming from when he says he didn’t have money for bike oil.
Got my bike license on the C90 in 1987.  It wasn’t hip, it wasn’t cool, but it was there, it was free and it got me through my test.

[slappy]

Those were the good old days, I had a beige coloured mk2 Cortina that never had an oil change in 20,000 miles, when the gearbox gave up the ghost I fitted one from a mk1 Cortina that meant I had to cut another hole in the transmission tunnel as the gearstick was now in a different position.
I gave the Cortina to my older brother for free, he did another 10,000 miles in it with no oil change before he wrote it off.

[mtread]

You were lucky! I used to have a Reliant Robin, that only had reverse gear working. I used to drive it backwards to work every day with a sump full of Mazola 20/50 cooking oil, and then when I got to work we had to drain it so we could fry the chips. Then going home it wouldn't start and I'd have to push it into the canal and row it all the way back again.


Four Yorkshiremen 

[VNA]

that meant I had to cut another hole in the transmission tunnel as the gearstick was now in a different position.

:lol :lol :lol

You were lucky! I used to have a Reliant Robin, that only had reverse gear working. I used to drive it backwards to work every day with a sump full of Mazola 20/50 cooking oil, and then when I got to work we had to drain it so we could fry the chips. Then going home it wouldn't start and I'd have to push it into the canal and row it all the way back again.

Steady.  For Focs Sake!  :rolleyes

[Slaninar]

! No longer available



My family lived on about 10e per month during the embargo in my country.

My first pay was about 200 e per month.

But my logic is - if I can't afford fuel, oil, or tyres - I can't afford the vehicle. Never found logic, or economy on skimping on oil/maintenance.

[Dea-ville]

C'mon chaps, don't let it this thread die, we've only got three pages of yes or no for running car oil in bikes. Lets have some more "viscosity facts & figures" & more, "when i were a lad i used to run me GS850 on our old fellas old cortina oil & it were better for it" C'MON, we want at least four pages.  :deal :wall :lol

[NorthWestern]

All oils are not equal, even good stuff.  When my bro was racing his yzf750 it kept doing crank shells.  He was recommended motul 300v as it was developed with that motor iirc.  He had zero issues after changing.  I can't recall what he was using previously, silkolene pro 4 or rock oils race oil. Same grade etc.

[Nemesis]

I remember when a woman ( oops person ) came into a shop and asked for some "710" whats grade is that love? " 710 for the engine", the OIL cap was upside down :lol

[slappy]

I remember when a woman ( oops person ) came into a shop and asked for some "710" whats grade is that love? " 710 for the engine", the OIL cap was upside down :lol

But did she want 710 semi synthetic or fully synthetic and how often was she changing the oil?


She probably used to buy it from here http://www.silkoleneoil.com/store/index.php?

[Nemesis]

:lol Cant believe that at least some companies have a sense of humour :rolleyes,

[Ricky]

As we we are talking about oil what fuel are we using? Supper market fuel? Is it as bad as some say or is the shell super magic stuff worth  the extra money? Just asking

[VNA]

or is the shell super magic stuff worth  the extra money?

:eek

Just asking

Aye so you are!