Front Brakes Refurb - Still rubbing :(

[stevejmason]

Hi, Merry Christmas, etc.


(Firstly, I'm new to this site. I have had a '02 FZS600 since March '12, in which time I've only covered ~15k miles here in Hertfordshire/London.)


Considering the front brake system looked OEM from factory, and had probably not been touched (except pads/fluid) for it's 35k lifetime, my Christmas project this year was a small revamp In which i've replaced the following:

• Re-built both calipers with new seals. (Pistons cleaned up, all seemed ok)
  
• EBC 'X-series' MD2001X discs.
  
• All new disc mount bolts.
  
• EBC FA252HH sintered pads.
  
• L/R wheel bearings + oil seal.
  
• HEL stainless brake lines.
  
• RBF600 brake fluid.
  

Just finished off this morning, pads in and bled the system (which seems to take forever with bikes!), but the discs are obviously rubbing the pads when I spin the front wheel  :'(  . I tried resetting the pistons, but before even touching the brake lever again, there is still rubbing! (the whole way round).


Is it the FZS' destiny to always have rubbing front brakes?? I presume this will die down slightly once she's down a few hundred miles on the road? (Although the old setup also rubbed, which helped persuade me to do this project anyway!).


I'm also hoping this has nothing to do with the only part of the front brake system that I did not touch  :lol  (master cylinder!). Which, on the subject, with the brake adjuster dial set to '1' ("highest"), the master cylinder would not return completely, this has been remedied by changing the dial to the next setting '2' - But is this perhaps a hint that I should have rebuilt the master cylinder too?? (I'm cursing myself for being a miser). I guess there is still time.....to get covered in brake fluid again 


Cheers, and happy holidays,
Stephen






P.S. here is a pretty picture of the new setup, because reading text is boring.

[alexanderfitu]

When you say rub, do you mean that they actually slow the wheel down.

If you can spin the wheel in the air and it rotates more than twice under its own intertia, then I would say its fine.

[stevejmason]

I'd call it 2.5 turns before stopping -  in which case, I need to stop being such a perfectionist! 

[Fazerider]

If they're the originals I'd recommend changing the master cylinder seals too.
Also lubricate the lever pivot and the back of the piston where the lever bears on it with a small amount of the thickest grease you have available. That often makes a huge difference to the feel of the brake and may make it easier for the pads to retract that little bit further.
Having said that, the pads will always rub slightly. So long as they're not dragging hard enough to make the disc warm you needn't worry.

[Ruby Racing]

Can't comment on the Fazer, but I had a 2002 R1 with the same callipers and they dragged like buggery from new, so I'd say that sounds normal.

[His Dudeness]

Did you scrap out the crap behind the seals in the caliper before you put the new ones in? And are you sure there isn't too much fluid in the reservoir?

[stevierst]

I rebuilt mine before selling my last boxeye, it helped a hell of a lot when you rebuild to keep pushing the pistons in and out until you can physically push them in with your thumbs, and twist them slightly every time. Plenty of rubber grease is vital, just make sure you remove the excess when re-assembling.

Out of the 5 bikes I've had with these brakes, not had any brakes binding doing it this way.

[alexanderfitu]

I'd call it 2.5 turns before stopping -  in which case, I need to stop being such a perfectionist! 

heheheh

[stevejmason]

Plenty of red rubber grease and I scraped out the crap under the old seals. I'd call the pistons loose in comparison to how tight and stiff they were before

Sounds like I'll be doing the master cylinder in the new year then!

Cheers for all the comments

[stevejmason]

...  And there shouldn't be too much fluid in the reservoir , I ALWAYS seem to overfill it, so I made a special effort this time to make sure it was below the line where the diaphragm sits!

[Punkstig]

As above- so long as it's not stopping the wheel within a couple of rotations it's fine!
Whereabouts in Herts are you?

[stevejmason]

Whereabouts in Herts are you?

I'm over in Welwyn mate.

[Gnasher]

I'd call it 2.5 turns before stopping -  in which case, I need to stop being such a perfectionist! 

This is about right the pads are meant to be in very light contact with the dics.  To check this is correct ride the bike as normal for a few miles, find a route where the last couple 100m are quite or free from traffic stop using the gearbox and rear brake only now check if the dics are hot.  In hot I mean you cant touch them wet your figer and tap each disc if there's a hiss there rubbing, if not there fine. 

They should be warm but able to touch CAUTION they will be hot if there rubbing they will be hot enough to seriously burn you, that heat you should be able to feel before you touch them!!!

If they are lacking power or proving difficult to bleed chances are you've put some or all the main seals round the wrong way!  :eek

Very common mistake, I dont recommend owners working on brakes unless they know what they are doing, too many end up putting their lives at risk or costing themself a small fortune :'(

Many on bike forums these days like to tell people how easy it is to do things which it is, if you have the know how and the tools most dont, picking up tips and reading the internet will not make up for a lack of "experience" and we are not talking changing your oil here.  Dont take this the wrong way but if your unsure find someone who knows what their doing or it could all end in  :'(

   

[Punkstig]

[quote author=Punkstig link=topic=11107.msg118188#msg118188 date=1388086760]
Whereabouts in Herts are you?

I'm over in Welwyn mate.
[/quote]
I'm just the other side of the M1 from you fella, keep an eye out in the events page for when the lofo's meet up (normally first Sunday of the month!)

[fazersharp]

, it helped a hell of a lot when you rebuild to keep pushing the pistons in and out until you can physically push them in with your thumbs, and twist them slightly every time. Plenty of rubber grease is vital, just make sure you remove the excess when re-assembling.

This is exactly what I did with mine, and yes they touch slightly.

[stevejmason]

This is about right the pads are meant to be in very light contact with the discs.  To check this is correct ride the bike as normal for a few miles, find a route where the last couple 100m are quite or free from traffic stop using the gearbox and rear brake only now check if the discs are hot.  In hot I mean you cant touch them wet your finger and tap each disc if there's a hiss there rubbing, if not there fine.   

I'd literally just thought of doing this while I was in town this morning, the good ol' spit on the finger test!  :lol They were fine. (P.s. thanks for all advice, perfectly valid points).

[darrsi]

[quote author=stevejmason link=topic=11107.msg118125#msg118125 date=1388057535]
I'd call it 2.5 turns before stopping -  in which case, I need to stop being such a perfectionist! 

This is about right the pads are meant to be in very light contact with the dics.  To check this is correct ride the bike as normal for a few miles, find a route where the last couple 100m are quite or free from traffic stop using the gearbox and rear brake only now check if the dics are hot.  In hot I mean you cant touch them wet your figer and tap each disc if there's a hiss there rubbing, if not there fine. 

They should be warm but able to touch CAUTION they will be hot if there rubbing they will be hot enough to seriously burn you, that heat you should be able to feel before you touch them!!!

If they are lacking power or proving difficult to bleed chances are you've put some or all the main seals round the wrong way!  :eek

Very common mistake, I dont recommend owners working on brakes unless they know what they are doing, too many end up putting their lives at risk or costing themself a small fortune :'(

Many on bike forums these days like to tell people how easy it is to do things which it is, if you have the know how and the tools most dont, picking up tips and reading the internet will not make up for a lack of "experience" and we are not talking changing your oil here.  Dont take this the wrong way but if your unsure find someone who knows what their doing or it could all end in  :'(

 
[/quote]


I didn't know the seals could be put in the wrong way?