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+--- Thread: Oil pressure switch (/showthread.php?tid=80372)
Re: Oil pressure switch - darrsi - 11-01-19
(11-01-19, 02:38 PM)fazersharp link Wrote: I think the reason is this. If the engine is cold - that means that all the oil that can flow back down has done so. After a short warm up and a couple of mins wait - there is still oil around all the parts that has yet to drip back down into the sump window area. I does seem a bit rubbish to have to read the level via this procedure as it just says a few mins after warm up but the longer you warm it the hotter the oil which will more readily/ quickly drip back down to the window area then the longer you leave it the more oil will drip down so there are too many variables. I would be much better if the procedure was from cold - cutting out all those variables.This would mean that the window would have to be higher as when cold all the oil that will do has dripped down and is near or above the top. I wonder if the read from warm procedure is just because they could not fit a window higher.
Maybe a slightly bigger viewing window would cater for everyone.
I do mine from the bottle now anyway, no window for me, and as long as there's no leaks then i don't need to do anything until i change it again, which i personally prefer to do every 4000 miles, even though it's recommended at every 6000 miles. Works for me, and the bike doesn't complain. :lol
Re: Oil pressure switch - fazersharp - 11-01-19
(11-01-19, 06:02 PM)darrsi link Wrote: [quote author=Jules-C link=topic=24849.msg290428#msg290428 date=1547214721]
The reason is so you don't need to wait an hour after running the engine to check the oil level.
That sounds like the most logical reason to me.
[/quote]The most logical way - if the window would allow is for it to be from cold which would be BEFORE you rode it or started it. Rather than start it - warm it - stop it- wait a few mins - look at it - start it and ride.
Re: Oil pressure switch - Dynspud - 11-01-19
What about a dipstick?
Re: Oil pressure switch - darrsi - 11-01-19
(11-01-19, 06:52 PM)fazersharp link Wrote: [quote author=darrsi link=topic=24849.msg290432#msg290432 date=1547226147]
[quote author=Jules-C link=topic=24849.msg290428#msg290428 date=1547214721]
The reason is so you don't need to wait an hour after running the engine to check the oil level.
That sounds like the most logical reason to me.
[/quote]The most logical way - if the window would allow is for it to be from cold which would be BEFORE you rode it or started it. Rather than start it - warm it - stop it- wait a few mins - look at it - start it and ride.
[/quote]
As i said, a bigger, or better still maybe an upright rectangular window similar to what you get on the back of oil containers, rather than round, so you can see all levels from cold, or when warm would make far more sense.
Once you know how much oil you have in there, after a change for example, then you can see both cold or warm levels then know if it’s right or wrong at a glance.
I must say though that the window on these sumps are pretty shite.......especially my one. :lol
Re: Oil pressure switch - His Dudeness - 11-01-19
The manual has to give a method that's accurate and covers all scenarios. They can't say check it from cold because a cold bike that was park two hours ago is going to show a different level to a cold bike that was parked a year ago even if they have the same amount of oil in them. The only way to cover all scenarios is to say start it up, turn it off, let it settle and then check it. They can't even give exact times to start it up because the bike could be parked in -10 weather or it could be in 40 degree weather so the viscosity of the oil would be totally different. Saying start it for two minutes and turn it off for a minute then check wouldn't work. The way they say to do it is the only way that covers all scenarios which is what the manual has to do.
Re: Oil pressure switch - limax2 - 11-01-19
No body has mentioned that when the oil is warm it will have expanded and therefore higher in the window than when cold.
Must admit I've never noticed the difference and anyway my light has never come on so I don't get concerned about it.
I still change the oil at approx 4,000 miles and check the level now and again, but have never had to top it up between oil changes. Bike now done about 55k.
Doesn't take much oil from first appearing in the window to going beyond the top, so a bit of care required at the final stages of filling.[size=78%] [/size]
Re: Oil pressure switch - BBROWN1664 - 11-01-19
(11-01-19, 10:42 PM)limax2 link Wrote: No body has mentioned that when the oil is warm it will have expanded and therefore higher in the window than when cold.
Must admit I've never noticed the difference and anyway my light has never come on so I don't get concerned about it.
I still change the oil at approx 4,000 miles and check the level now and again, but have never had to top it up between oil changes. Bike now done about 55k.
Doesn't take much oil from first appearing in the window to going beyond the top, so a bit of care required at the final stages of filling.[size=78%] [/size]
Expansion will be minimal. So ignore it.
Oil will be up around the top of the engine when warm rather than all in the sump. This is why it is LOWER in the window when warm and why the manual says to check it when WARM
Re: Oil pressure switch - fazersharp - 11-01-19
(11-01-19, 10:42 PM)limax2 link Wrote: Doesn't take much oil from first appearing in the window to going beyond the top, so a bit of care required at the final stages of filling.[size=78%] [/size]EGG CUP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Oil pressure switch - fazersharp - 11-01-19
(11-01-19, 08:58 PM)His Dudeness link Wrote: The manual has to give a method that's accurate and covers all scenarios. They can't say check it from cold because a cold bike that was park two hours ago is going to show a different level to a cold bike that was parked a year ago even if they have the same amount of oil in them. The only way to cover all scenarios is to say start it up, turn it off, let it settle and then check it. They can't even give exact times to start it up because the bike could be parked in -10 weather or it could be in 40 degree weather so the viscosity of the oil would be totally different. Saying start it for two minutes and turn it off for a minute then check wouldn't work. The way they say to do it is the only way that covers all scenarios which is what the manual has to do.That (unfortunately) makes far too much sense. But I think may be the answer.How come there not so much angst among car owners.
Re: Oil pressure switch - His Dudeness - 12-01-19
(11-01-19, 11:38 PM)fazersharp link Wrote: [quote author=His Dudeness link=topic=24849.msg290445#msg290445 date=1547236712]That (unfortunately) makes far too much sense. But I think may be the answer.How come there not so much angst among car owners.
The manual has to give a method that's accurate and covers all scenarios. They can't say check it from cold because a cold bike that was park two hours ago is going to show a different level to a cold bike that was parked a year ago even if they have the same amount of oil in them. The only way to cover all scenarios is to say start it up, turn it off, let it settle and then check it. They can't even give exact times to start it up because the bike could be parked in -10 weather or it could be in 40 degree weather so the viscosity of the oil would be totally different. Saying start it for two minutes and turn it off for a minute then check wouldn't work. The way they say to do it is the only way that covers all scenarios which is what the manual has to do.
[/quote]
Probably because cars rubbish and only good for carrying the shopping :lol I think on some new cars you can't even check the oil level. The engine is sealed and you have to take it to a dealer to do an oil change....junk!
Re: Oil pressure switch - darrsi - 12-01-19
(11-01-19, 11:38 PM)fazersharp link Wrote: [quote author=His Dudeness link=topic=24849.msg290445#msg290445 date=1547236712]That (unfortunately) makes far too much sense. But I think may be the answer.How come there not so much angst among car owners.
The manual has to give a method that's accurate and covers all scenarios. They can't say check it from cold because a cold bike that was park two hours ago is going to show a different level to a cold bike that was parked a year ago even if they have the same amount of oil in them. The only way to cover all scenarios is to say start it up, turn it off, let it settle and then check it. They can't even give exact times to start it up because the bike could be parked in -10 weather or it could be in 40 degree weather so the viscosity of the oil would be totally different. Saying start it for two minutes and turn it off for a minute then check wouldn't work. The way they say to do it is the only way that covers all scenarios which is what the manual has to do.
[/quote]
Because they're dipsticks :lol
Re: Oil pressure switch - darrsi - 12-01-19
(11-01-19, 11:04 PM)BBROWN1664 link Wrote: [quote author=limax2 link=topic=24849.msg290450#msg290450 date=1547242969]
No body has mentioned that when the oil is warm it will have expanded and therefore higher in the window than when cold.
Must admit I've never noticed the difference and anyway my light has never come on so I don't get concerned about it.
I still change the oil at approx 4,000 miles and check the level now and again, but have never had to top it up between oil changes. Bike now done about 55k.
Doesn't take much oil from first appearing in the window to going beyond the top, so a bit of care required at the final stages of filling.[size=78%] [/size]
Expansion will be minimal. So ignore it.
Oil will be up around the top of the engine when warm rather than all in the sump. This is why it is LOWER in the window when warm and why the manual says to check it when WARM
[/quote]
I was gonna say the same, the whole point of oil is to lubricate under extreme conditions so if it changed its quality or texture a lot under different temperatures then it would become kind of unreliable.
You'll always get a cold engine and a hot engine but it has to be designed to withstand all of this, hence the reason it's graded between temperature lowers/uppers.
Re: Oil pressure switch - YamFazFan - 12-01-19
(11-01-19, 07:47 PM)Dynspud link Wrote: What about a dipstick?
Unrelated to the thread, but I owned a Citroen car several years ago that had a wire dipstick, but with a plastic tip on the end with the level lines on it.
They were well known for the tip snapping off way down in the dipstick tube as it negotiated it's way around a bend in the tube.
It was due to the constant heating/cooling weakening it. You had to buy a new dipstick, then as you inserted it the broken bit got pushed down into the sump. The oil strainer prevented it going anywhere or doing any harm. Daft though eh :rolleyes
Re: Oil pressure switch - fazersharp - 12-01-19
(12-01-19, 12:56 PM)YamFazFan link Wrote: [quote author=Dynspud link=topic=24849.msg290439#msg290439 date=1547232469]
What about a dipstick?
Unrelated to the thread, but I owned a Citroen car several years ago that had a wire dipstick, but with a plastic tip on the end with the level lines on it.
They were well known for the tip snapping off way down in the dipstick tube as it negotiated it's way around a bend in the tube.
It was due to the constant heating/cooling weakening it. You had to buy a new dipstick, then as you inserted it the broken bit got pushed down into the sump. The oil strainer prevented it going anywhere or doing any harm. Daft though eh :rolleyes
[/quote]Yep - I had that car. And I would push dipstick down inch by inch and as I did I would let it rotate as it wanted to. I think the way down there was a contorted route that did not help the plastic bit on the end.
Re: Oil pressure switch - darrsi - 12-01-19
(12-01-19, 01:20 PM)fazersharp link Wrote: [quote author=YamFazFan link=topic=24849.msg290473#msg290473 date=1547294183]
[quote author=Dynspud link=topic=24849.msg290439#msg290439 date=1547232469]
What about a dipstick?
Unrelated to the thread, but I owned a Citroen car several years ago that had a wire dipstick, but with a plastic tip on the end with the level lines on it.
They were well known for the tip snapping off way down in the dipstick tube as it negotiated it's way around a bend in the tube.
It was due to the constant heating/cooling weakening it. You had to buy a new dipstick, then as you inserted it the broken bit got pushed down into the sump. The oil strainer prevented it going anywhere or doing any harm. Daft though eh :rolleyes
[/quote]Yep - I had that car. And I would push dipstick down inch by inch and as I did I would let it rotate as it wanted to. I think the way down there was a contorted route that did not help the plastic bit on the end.
[/quote]
I bet you sold it to him? :lol
Re: Oil pressure switch - YamFazFan - 12-01-19
(12-01-19, 02:01 PM)darrsi link Wrote: [quote author=fazersharp link=topic=24849.msg290475#msg290475 date=1547295626]
[quote author=YamFazFan link=topic=24849.msg290473#msg290473 date=1547294183]
[quote author=Dynspud link=topic=24849.msg290439#msg290439 date=1547232469]
What about a dipstick?
Unrelated to the thread, but I owned a Citroen car several years ago that had a wire dipstick, but with a plastic tip on the end with the level lines on it.
They were well known for the tip snapping off way down in the dipstick tube as it negotiated it's way around a bend in the tube.
It was due to the constant heating/cooling weakening it. You had to buy a new dipstick, then as you inserted it the broken bit got pushed down into the sump. The oil strainer prevented it going anywhere or doing any harm. Daft though eh :rolleyes
[/quote]Yep - I had that car. And I would push dipstick down inch by inch and as I did I would let it rotate as it wanted to. I think the way down there was a contorted route that did not help the plastic bit on the end.
[/quote]
I bet you sold it to him? :lol
[/quote]
:rollin :rollin
If I remember correctly you could only get about a pint of oil in the sump at oil change because it was stuffed full of dipstick ends
Re: Oil pressure switch - BBROWN1664 - 12-01-19
(12-01-19, 12:26 AM)His Dudeness link Wrote: Probably because cars rubbish and only good for carrying the shopping :lol I think on some new cars you can't even check the oil level. The engine is sealed and you have to take it to a dealer to do an oil change....junk!
On my Audi, there is no dipstick, you have to check the level via the computer screen inside the car.
Re: Oil pressure switch - robbo - 12-01-19
My '94 Speed Triple has a dipstick. No doubt far more expensive to produce that feature, than drilling a hole through a crankcase and pressing a glass bung in the hole.
Re: Oil pressure switch - limax2 - 12-01-19
(11-01-19, 11:04 PM)BBROWN1664 link Wrote: [quote author=limax2 link=topic=24849.msg290450#msg290450 date=1547242969]
No body has mentioned that when the oil is warm it will have expanded and therefore higher in the window than when cold.
Must admit I've never noticed the difference and anyway my light has never come on so I don't get concerned about it.
I still change the oil at approx 4,000 miles and check the level now and again, but have never had to top it up between oil changes. Bike now done about 55k.
Doesn't take much oil from first appearing in the window to going beyond the top, so a bit of care required at the final stages of filling.[size=78%] [/size]
Expansion will be minimal. So ignore it.
Oil will be up around the top of the engine when warm rather than all in the sump. This is why it is LOWER in the window when warm and why the manual says to check it when WARM
[/quote]
The reason to wait a few minutes after warming up is so that most of that oil drains back into the sump.
Just for interest the increase in volume is :-
Volumetric expansion coefficient of engine oil is 0.00070 per deg C
Oil capacity say 2.7ltrs = 2,700c.c.
Lets say temperature difference from cold to warm is 40 deg C
Change in oil volume = 0.00070 x 2700 x 40 = 75.6c.c.
To use a previous measuring scale that’s about three normal egg cups worth.
I’ve no idea what that difference in volume represents in terms of height in the site glass and never bothered about it. Maybe I’ll have to check the oil level when cold and then again when warm after standing a few minutes and see if my calculation theory is total garbidge.
Re: Oil pressure switch - darrsi - 12-01-19
(12-01-19, 09:35 PM)limax2 link Wrote: [quote author=BBROWN1664 link=topic=24849.msg290453#msg290453 date=1547244272]
[quote author=limax2 link=topic=24849.msg290450#msg290450 date=1547242969]
No body has mentioned that when the oil is warm it will have expanded and therefore higher in the window than when cold.
Must admit I've never noticed the difference and anyway my light has never come on so I don't get concerned about it.
I still change the oil at approx 4,000 miles and check the level now and again, but have never had to top it up between oil changes. Bike now done about 55k.
Doesn't take much oil from first appearing in the window to going beyond the top, so a bit of care required at the final stages of filling.[size=78%] [/size]
Expansion will be minimal. So ignore it.
Oil will be up around the top of the engine when warm rather than all in the sump. This is why it is LOWER in the window when warm and why the manual says to check it when WARM
[/quote]
The reason to wait a few minutes after warming up is so that most of that oil drains back into the sump.
Just for interest the increase in volume is :-
Volumetric expansion coefficient of engine oil is 0.00070 per deg C
Oil capacity say 2.7ltrs = 2,700c.c.
Lets say temperature difference from cold to warm is 40 deg C
Change in oil volume = 0.00070 x 2700 x 40 = 75.6c.c.
To use a previous measuring scale that’s about three normal egg cups worth.
I’ve no idea what that difference in volume represents in terms of height in the site glass and never bothered about it. Maybe I’ll have to check the oil level when cold and then again when warm after standing a few minutes and see if my calculation theory is total garbidge.
[/quote]
Been a while for my bike now but from memory when my bike was cold the oil was above the window.